Bart Ehrman. Best critical bible expert.

[odysseus]

Gotta love Bart. I've read a lot of his books - what I like is the depth of knowledge coupled with the accessibility of his writing.

[Bruce Burleson]

The significant fact about Bart Ehrman is that he is a former Christian who is a knowledgeable biblical scholar now turned atheist, but he still acknowledges the existence of the historical Jesus. Jesus is still the most influential person in history. After all, here we are talking about him.

[Jason]

Bruce Burleson. Great name! I love the alliteration.

I never did get into the Jesus myther debate. Don't care really. I wouldn't say this 'Jesus' character is the most influential person in history, that's a huge claim (I'd probably go with the woman who discovered fire [it was a woman because she needed to cook]), but real or not the stories about him have been very influential.

[Bruce Burleson]

Bruce Burleson. Great name! I love the alliteration.

I never did get into the Jesus myther debate. Don't care really. I wouldn't say this 'Jesus' character is the most influential person in history, that's a huge claim (I'd probably go with the woman who discovered fire [it was a woman because she needed to cook]), but real or not the stories about him have been very influential.

I have to give my parents credit for my name. I had very little choice in the matter, like most things in life. The woman who discovered fire or the man who discovered the wheel are not part of "history," technically speaking. There is no record of them. That's what separates history from pre-history. The influence of Jesus is precisely because he is part of history. It is the written record that counts.

[Jason]

Far be it from me to resort to argumentum ad wikipedia, but:

History (from Greek ἱστορία - historia, meaning "inquiry, knowledge acquired by investigation"[2]) is an umbrella term that relates to past events as well as the discovery, collection, organization, and presentation of information about these events. The term includes cosmic, geologic, and organic history, but is often generically implied to mean human history. Scholars who write about history are called historians.

Even restricting 'history' to mean 'recorded history', I still wouldn't make that claim. The course of the world was influenced far more by the great thinkers of ancient Greece and those who continued their work and developed 'science' in the Muslim world. Who was the seminal person in all that? Hard to say, but it wasn't Jesus.

[Bruce Burleson]

One good Wiki reference deserves another:

"Prehistory (meaning "before history," from the Latin word for "before," præ) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. "

In any event, I'm not referring to "seminal" figures in history, but influential ones. Jesus influenced this forum more than any scientist. If there had never been a Jesus, the idea of an "atheist" forum in the West would never even have arisen.

[Jason]

I'll see your causality argument and raise you another: Without a scientist the internet wouldn't exist for any forum to be on.

Also, 'seminal' and 'influential' seem to be synonymous in the context of history to my mind.

[rasetsu]

And now for something completely different.....







Oh, sorry. My bad. It's the same old shit.

[mistermack]

The man who invented fire did far more to influence history.
History is hugely influenced by what happened before writing.

So there.

Anyway, St. Paul was the real influence on history. We don't know if Jesus existed or not. Although it's odds on that he did.
But St. Paul made sure of the legend. Nobody today would know of any Jesus character without him.

Sod.

[Cormac]

Bruce Burleson. Great name! I love the alliteration.

I never did get into the Jesus myther debate. Don't care really. I wouldn't say this 'Jesus' character is the most influential person in history, that's a huge claim (I'd probably go with the woman who discovered fire [it was a woman because she needed to cook]), but real or not the stories about him have been very influential.

This is a nonsensical statement.

If it was intended as a joke, I retract my statement above, and replace it with a "good show"!

But if you were serious, there is absolutely no grounding for saying that at all. It could have been a man or a woman, and the circumstances dictate everything. It could have been discovered on multiple occasions, or once. We don't know for sure.

But as for the claim that it was a woman - that is groundless.

[Cormac]

One good Wiki reference deserves another:

"Prehistory (meaning "before history," from the Latin word for "before," præ) is the span of time before recorded history or the invention of writing systems. "

In any event, I'm not referring to "seminal" figures in history, but influential ones. Jesus influenced this forum more than any scientist. If there had never been a Jesus, the idea of an "atheist" forum in the West would never even have arisen.

Of course, this implies that there is either christianity or atheism, and nothing else.

It is a false dichotomy that you propose.

Edit: In other words - I'm just as atheistic about Yahweh, Thor, Woden, Ganesh, and all the other gods we've invented. So, atheism doesn't exist because Jesus may have existed. Atheism exists because humans insist on inventing gods - due to an evolutionary by-product results in this odd behavioural tic of theism.

[Jason]

Bruce Burleson. Great name! I love the alliteration.

I never did get into the Jesus myther debate. Don't care really. I wouldn't say this 'Jesus' character is the most influential person in history, that's a huge claim (I'd probably go with the woman who discovered fire [it was a woman because she needed to cook]), but real or not the stories about him have been very influential.

This is a nonsensical statement.

If it was intended as a joke, I retract my statement above, and replace it with a "good show"!

But if you were serious, there is absolutely no grounding for saying that at all. It could have been a man or a woman, and the circumstances dictate everything. It could have been discovered on multiple occasions, or once. We don't know for sure.

But as for the claim that it was a woman - that is groundless.

'Twas a joke. I thought sexist jokes were all the rage now?

[Cormac]

Bruce Burleson. Great name! I love the alliteration.

I never did get into the Jesus myther debate. Don't care really. I wouldn't say this 'Jesus' character is the most influential person in history, that's a huge claim (I'd probably go with the woman who discovered fire [it was a woman because she needed to cook]), but real or not the stories about him have been very influential.

This is a nonsensical statement.

If it was intended as a joke, I retract my statement above, and replace it with a "good show"!

But if you were serious, there is absolutely no grounding for saying that at all. It could have been a man or a woman, and the circumstances dictate everything. It could have been discovered on multiple occasions, or once. We don't know for sure.

But as for the claim that it was a woman - that is groundless.

'Twas a joke. I thought sexist jokes were all the rage now?

I don't know what the fuck was up my nose when I posted that comment.

Please ignore.

[devogue]

A fascinating lecture. I watched it all - I wish he wouldn't try to laugh though - it's very annoying.

[Tero]

The significant fact about Bart Ehrman is that he is a former Christian who is a knowledgeable biblical scholar now turned atheist, but he still acknowledges the existence of the historical Jesus. Jesus is still the most influential person in history. After all, here we are talking about him.

There is little evidence of Jesus as person. Yes, there probably was a preacher upon whom a growing ball of Myth and stories were dumped. Such as recycled virgin birth and resurrection myths.