My former priest is coming round later...

[Thinking Aloud]

You guys are all stupid. How can you not see God's creation all around you? I'm outa here!
























Well, perhaps not. I have learned that:
* the attractive force holding atomic particles together is "love";
* I must be lonely;
* god is mysterious, and our life's goal should be to attempt to understand him/it;
* suicide bombers do what they do to get to heaven.

I gave some opinions on those.

He'll be back. :twisted:

[klr]

You guys are all stupid. How can you not see God's creation all around you? I'm outa here!

...

Well, perhaps not. I have learned that:
* the attractive force holding atomic particles together is "love";
* I must be lonely;
* god is mysterious, and our life's goal should be to attempt to understand him/it;
* suicide bombers do what they do to get to heaven.

I gave some opinions on those.

He'll be back. :twisted:

I suppose 1 out of 4 isn't too bad.

And better you than me. I just wouldn't have the patience. :twisted:

[charlou]

[Bella Fortuna]

I'll have some too.

[Bella Fortuna]

* I must be lonely;

Can I meet him when I visit?

[CJ]

[klr]

* I must be lonely;

Can I meet him when I visit?

Get thee behind me Satan ... :twisted:

[Feck]

* I must be lonely;

Can I meet him when I visit?

Get thee behind me Satan ...time for some saddlebacking :twisted:

[Thinking Aloud]

* I must be lonely;

Can I meet him when I visit?

Oh ho ho ho! What a nice idea!

A little more detail on yesterday's 45-minute chat.

This followed on from a previous visit where he'd discovered I no longer believed, and we'd talked about reasons for not doing. Anyway, he'd spent quite a lot of time thinking about it in the meantime (he was up for a faith-challenging discussion, presumably to bolster his own faith), and came back with a few questions for me.

Last time I'd made the point that there's no actual evidence for god at all - that many things had been explained well already scientifically, and those things that hadn't were mostly subject to scientific enquiry - but at the same time, acknowledging that we may never know everything. (Naturally adding that postulating 'god' as an explanation in the meantime is just a lazy cop-out that tries to avoid further investigation.)

He had thought long and hard about this, and suggested his own hypothesis that the strongest attractive force in the universe - that thing that holds sub-atomic particles together, and keeps electrons in their orbits, etc, was "love". I said, "that's a bit of a stretch," but admitted I wasn't an atomic physicist, so couldn't really offer a scientific explanation just now.

He went on to talk about the ways that the church had developed over time in its desire to "know god", mentioning the depth of knowledge on this subject that the Catholic church had developed over the centuries. I said that was well and good, but you can't actually define god - what is it: the thing that created the universe?; the thing that created life?; the thing that answers individual prayers?; the thing that chose to do some miracles in a backward middle-eastern country 2000 years ago? There's such a disparity between these things that assigning all these qualities makes god so complex that it defies any logic. He said that God is a Mystery. I said, "Well, how can you possibly know anything about it then?"

He digressed to how important it is for young children to start to try to know god as they grow up, leading to a fulfilling knowledge of him in later life. I presented the Santa analogy - the only difference being that no-one ever tells you it's just a joke.

One thing he had thought I must feel, as a non-believer, was lonely. I said not at all, and that I was quite happy in my role as a transient complex chemical reaction in some tiny corner of the universe (showed him that great YouTube "size of the planets / stars" video - he said, "Are these all true?"), and found considerable awe at the sheer size of the Universe.

He started about finding deeper meaning ... what, for humanity? I said that I found it quite acceptable that the whole of our existence is ultimately futile, that it doesn't lead to anything afterwards, and that we're literally just here to reproduce ourselves - that's not a problem, but it doesn't mean my life is futile or meaningless. I said that because I now don't expect anything afterwards, my actual life has taken on more importance - I only have this time to experience everything.

Bizarrely he then brought up suicide bombers as an example of people who believe they're going to heaven, and are willing to die prematurely to attain that. I called them completely stupid: "they've wasted their only chance at life, and for nothing but a lot of nonsense - there's one advantage, though; whatever it is in the head that made them do that is at least out of the gene pool and won't be passed on to the next generation."

We touched on a few other things such as the period when I thought perhaps the Universe was God, but then realised we had a perfectly good name for the Universe already, and since it's not obviously sentient...

In the end he asked about people who find spiritual meanings, and had spiritual experiences. I gave him my own limited experience along those lines, and said I had no special reason to believe the state of mind was caused by any kind of divine connection.

Anyway, ranted on enough. He'll be back for more in due course. Oh, to deconvert a priest - that would be something for my CV!

[Animavore]

Love?

How about the weak nuclear force.
Saying love holds atoms together is like saying embraces keep us from falling off the planet.

[klr]

* I must be lonely;

Can I meet him when I visit?

Oh ho ho ho! What a nice idea!

...
He had thought long and hard about this, and suggested his own hypothesis that the strongest attractive force in the universe - that thing that holds sub-atomic particles together, and keeps electrons in their orbits, etc, was "love". I said, "that's a bit of a stretch," but admitted I wasn't an atomic physicist, so couldn't really offer a scientific explanation just now.

Occam's Razor says you don't have to. It's up to him to support the eh, lurve idea . There is a world of information on physics out there, even if most people can't fully comprehend it.

He went on to talk about the ways that the church had developed over time in its desire to "know god", mentioning the depth of knowledge on this subject that the Catholic church had developed over the centuries.

50-60 years ago - back when our parents were young - the Catholic Church stood for something completely different. Fire and Brimstone. Non-Catholics were toast in the afterlife. Fasting, observance, etc. were serious matters. Limbo was real. Now it's had a serious attack of the warm-and-fuzzies, and even with Pope Joey at the helm, has ditched a lot of the really strong stuff.

Never mind what happened during the Crusades, Inquisitions, etc.

Why? Why did countless millions of people have to be made believe in something that the Church now says is nonsense? Why couldn't God have been on message from day one? The answer of course is obvious - humans adjust their perception/"theory" of God to fit in with the real world as best they can. The Church as a super-organism is just adapting to survive as best it can, in true Darwinian fashion.

Anyway, ranted on enough. He'll be back for more in due course. Oh, to deconvert a priest - that would be something for my CV!

Most priests are quite smart, if you can get past the emotional attachment to whatever voodoo they believe in.

[Sisifo]

Well, perhaps not. I have learned that:
* the attractive force holding atomic particles together is "love";
* I must be lonely;
* god is mysterious, and our life's goal should be to attempt to understand him/it;
* suicide bombers do what they do to get to heaven.

I gave some opinions on those.

He'll be back. :twisted:

Sooooooooo, he comes to your house to talk about love, tells you that you are lonely, says that his goal is to attempt and relates blowing to heaven and you still can't figure out why he wants to see you?
hel-lo...

[Thinking Aloud]

Well, perhaps not. I have learned that:
* the attractive force holding atomic particles together is "love";
* I must be lonely;
* god is mysterious, and our life's goal should be to attempt to understand him/it;
* suicide bombers do what they do to get to heaven.

I gave some opinions on those.

He'll be back. :twisted:

Sooooooooo, he comes to your house to talk about love, tells you that you are lonely, says that his goal is to attempt and relates blowing to heaven and you still can't figure out why he wants to see you?
hel-lo...

He only has to ask.

[Feck]

Do you know how many forum Kudos you get if you literally de-frock your Priest ?

[Sisifo]

He only has to ask.

He is! That's when he told you about the mysterious ways.