Jesus Camp

[Thinking Aloud]

I don't, and won't watch these kinds of things, because I know it'll get me incensed, and I try very hard to keep cheerful these days.

If you know that you will get angry. Don't watch it, you'll want to punch someone out afterwards.

Exactly!

[Feck]

I downloaded it then deleted it because I couldn't watch it after the first few minutes I was getting 'upset' .

[Annuhh5]

I downloaded it then deleted it because I couldn't watch it after the first few minutes I was getting 'upset' .

I fought on through. It was a hard feat, but I managed. I'm shocked my computer is still in one piece.

[Cunt]

*deep breath* wrt to your latest link, Annuh ... the woman has clearly slipped to the 'dork syde' herself, as far as her delusion goes. The confusion and concern of the others is obvious. It's most disturbing that the little girl had to witness the whole scene, that none of them thought to take her somewhere safe. Says a lot about family dynamics, and often typical impotence in the face of a strange and surreal situation.

What is funniest to me is that she must have agreed to release the footage. She likely thinks that she sounds great.

I think allowing magical thinking to go unchecked is one of the largest reasons for mental health issues being so difficult to address.

[Annuhh5]

*deep breath* wrt to your latest link, Annuh ... the woman has clearly slipped to the 'dork syde' herself, as far as her delusion goes. The confusion and concern of the others is obvious. It's most disturbing that the little girl had to witness the whole scene, that none of them thought to take her somewhere safe. Says a lot about family dynamics, and often typical impotence in the face of a strange and surreal situation.

What is funniest to me is that she must have agreed to release the footage. She likely thinks that she sounds great.

I think allowing magical thinking to go unchecked is one of the largest reasons for mental health issues being so difficult to address.

Of course she thinks she's right. They all do! Always...
If evolution was a single, physical thing and you shoved it in front of their face, they would still think they're right.

[normal]

I watched the whole thing. There was one bright spot in there, and that was when they were praying over their computer equipment to make their powerpoint presentation go well.

[Bella Fortuna]

I don't, and won't watch these kinds of things, because I know it'll get me incensed, and I try very hard to keep cheerful these days.

If you know that you will get angry. Don't watch it, you'll want to punch someone out afterwards.

Exactly!

Same reason I've seen clips but can't bring myself to watch the full thing... I'd either become furious or depressed, or both.

[Bella Fortuna]

I watched the whole thing. There was one bright spot in there, and that was when they were praying over their computer equipment to make their powerpoint presentation go well.

Everyone knows that IS the only thing that works with Powerpoint...

[charlou]

I watched the whole thing. There was one bright spot in there, and that was when they were praying over their computer equipment to make their powerpoint presentation go well.

Everyone knows that IS the only thing that works with Powerpoint...

... thanks, needed that!

[Annuhh5]

I watched the whole thing. There was one bright spot in there, and that was when they were praying over their computer equipment to make their powerpoint presentation go well.

Everyone knows that IS the only thing that works with Powerpoint...

And obviously the reason why a powerpoint presentation goes wrong, is because its the work of the devil!

[Bella Fortuna]

I watched the whole thing. There was one bright spot in there, and that was when they were praying over their computer equipment to make their powerpoint presentation go well.

Everyone knows that IS the only thing that works with Powerpoint...

And obviously the reason why a powerpoint presentation goes wrong, is because its the work of the devil!

He's in the details, you know, and with Powerpoint there are so many, many details....

[Twoflower]

This has nothing to do with Jesus Camp, but I thought it would be fun to post here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns

Later on she took back the money.

[Cunt]

This has nothing to do with Jesus Camp, but I thought it would be fun to post here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3mDLsyn6ns

Later on she took back the money.

Yes, of course, it costs HUGELY to keep up all that gluttony and pride.

I just wish that fact were made more explicit (or maybe it was and I just couldn't watch to the end)

[Pappa]

What I posted about it in another thread:

Yeah, I just watched it and I mostly felt sad for the kids. There seemed to be an element of self-delusional complicity from the woman and others like Ted Haggard too, almost as if they know what they are doing is manipulative brainwashing, but never admit it to themselves.

[BrettA]

I think everyone on the planet should watch this and be very familiar with its content, no matter how pissed off it makes you. I 'give thanks' for it for lots of reasons, not the least of which is what it provides on the old Jesuit maxim: "Give me the child and I'll give you the man" (or several variations). To Xians claiming that Xianity doesn't indoctrinate, it's priceless and we have documentation from 'biblical times' to the present day of their ugly brainwashing techniques - generally from the horse's mouth. Also, here's an even more recent take from an atheistic (ex-Xian indoctrinate) perspective: “Train Up A Child”. I even took a few notes on 'Jesus Camp', FWIW (most relevant or 'useful', IMO, is 1:14:19):

Becky Fischer is a Pentecostal children’s minister…

0:28 – Sandra Day O’Connor, the first woman ever to serve on the high court, has turned in her letter of resignation... [ Bush: Staff to compile and recommend for ‘my’ review potential nominees who will faithfully interpret the Constitution and laws of our country. ]

0:50 – [Unkn. Voices - Media] I believe as Christian citizens of this country, that we should be actively involved in this historic moment, and if the churches across this country – believers – can come together and take a stand, I think it’s going to have a powerful, powerful impact on this process. … We dare not sleep through this point of decision, ‘cause frankly, future generations depend on us. Pray urgently that God’s perfect will be done. … We are engaged today in what they call culture war. We didn’t start it, but we – by His grace – are going to end it! And we should say –YES – we want to reclaim America for Christ.

01:03:30 – 30-Year effort… Confirm Judge Samuel A. Alyto and take one step to bringing this nation to one nation under God.

01:03:55 – Colorado Springs (New Life Church) has the greatest concentration of Evangelical organizations in America. Christian tourists from around the country are drawn to the city’s megachurches. [Pastor Ted Haggard is President of the National Association of Evangelicals, representing 30 million people – he talks to Bush and his advisors every Monday.]

01:08:10 – Kids are everything. They love the evangelical message. God loves ‘em; The Bible’s the Word of God, they are gifts from God. So while Public school tells ‘em they’re animals; they’re the product of natural selection; we tell them God loves you, God created you, you have a purpose in life. I mean the kids are… just loving it! … So it’s an awful lot of people and we’re growing … It’s got enough growth to essentially sway every election – if the evangelicals vote, they determine the election – it’s a fabulous life!

01:13:12 – Some extreme Liberals… They have to look at this; and start shaking in their boots. The intensity that you see in these kids, there’s no doubt they’ve gotta be watching this and go – Oh my goodness, I didn’t know this was possible. But what are these kids going to be like when they grow up. It’s like – animal rights people, eat your heart out – you know, you wanna see intense, you wanna see kids passionate about Christ… this is it! You know I have to believe with all my heart this is just the tip of the iceberg. I believe those kids made an impact in heaven – God hears the cries of children.

01:14:19 - [Talking to Becky in Bismarck, N.D. – she’s a children’s pastor and she runs a summer camp for evangelicals] Anyone who does any work with kids knows, it’s because - The reason you go for kids is because whatever they learn by the time they’re 7, 8, or 9 years old is pretty well there for the rest of there lives – these are statistics that you can research for yourself … [No, I know the statistics, but you use the term “learn”, and the word “learn” is different than “indoctrinate”… doing harm to the progression of mankind] I don’t think any child gets anything by choice… Is it right for the fundamentalists to indoctrinate their children with their own beliefs – I guess fundamentally yes, I do, because every other religion is indoctrinating their kids – Hellooooooo – I would like to see more churches indoctrinating. [You can tell a child anything; you can make a child into a soldier that carries an AK-47...] You could call it brainwashing, but I am radical and passionate in teaching children their responsibility, as Christians, as God-fearing people, as Americans…

Let the Church Rise! < End >

*** And here's a quick post I did somewhere on "Train Up The Child"...

Re: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zZytbe1a9s “Train Up A Child” – The Thinking Atheist

That's a great clip updating an old adage. From the Jesuits* long ago to Jesus Camp** in 2006, indoctrination works... Brainwashing works!

* Usually attributed to Ignatius of Loyola or Francis Xavier in the 1500s, "Give me the child and I will mold the man" or several variations usually specifying age 7, Christianity has revolved around this. There's a book and video series on this: "7 Up: 'Give Me the Child Until He is Seven, and I Will Show You the Man'" by Michael Apted.

** Pastor Becky Fisher says around 1:14:20 "I don’t think any child gets anything by choice… Is it right for the fundamentalists to indoctrinate their children with their own beliefs – I guess fundamentally yes, I do, because every other religion is indoctrinating their kids – Hellooooooo – I would like to see more churches indoctrinating. [...] You could call it brainwashing, but I am radical and passionate in teaching children their responsibility, as Christians, as God-fearing people, as Americans…"