Muslim Ban Over Handshake. Whaddayareckon Liberals?

[Exi5tentialist]

I bet if they asked the kids Iman father his opinion on women, you no deporters would change their mind.....

Islamophobic, racist shit. Again.

And it's "Imam". Ignorance thrives on illiteracy.

[NineBerry]

Why don't you just all shake hands?

[Exi5tentialist]

Is this funny to you?

[NineBerry]

Everything in reality is funny and tragic at the same time.

[Exi5tentialist]

Everything in reality is funny and tragic at the same time.

Any thoughts about the subject matter or are you just going pretend you're being enigmatic just to try and look clever?

[pErvinalia]

yeah, so it might not be the case that religion is the root cause of these problems, but it sure amplifies the effects.

Stop talking absolute shit will you? All this bollocks about Islam only became popular since people realised they could use it as an alternative to being racist about "Pakis". Get a grip and get off your racist high horse for once and start talking about the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism.

Jeez, I'm a racist as well as a paedophile. I really need to take a look at myself..

Yes you do. For starters you won't address any of the issues I raise, you just make stupid sarky remarks like that one. Secondly you don't fully appreciate that these abusive forces you refer to are supported by swathes of ideological and pseudo intellectual rationalizations. That's where you come in. Your position is one of the most reactionary and right wing on this already extremely right wing website and you spout all this rubbish daily. Pappa must be proud to have you here.

And you expect serious replies in response to your wild ranting? Lol, piss off.

[pErvinalia]

None of you can address the fucking issue. You just spout crap then you make some snotty comment then you carry on as before.

"Lol" - is that all you can fucking say? Pile of shit argument that is. Pathetic.

You need anger management, dude.

[pErvinalia]

Everything in reality is funny and tragic at the same time.

Any thoughts about the subject matter or are you just going pretend you're being enigmatic just to try and look clever?

NineBerry has given plenty of thoughts on the subject matter. You need to wipe the spittle off your computer screen.

[JimC]

Exi5tentialist wrote:

...the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism...

You are certainly embracing your inner Marxist these days...

In the sense of the usual well-worn simplistic dogma of the ranting left...

[pErvinalia]

Yeah. And it makes about as much sense as Marxism. You can't claim in the same sentence that the problem is both capitalism and economic deprivation. Stopping half the potential workforce from selling their labour is anathema to capitalism. Not to mention, oppression pre-dates capitalism. So the same argument he uses against Islam - that it post-dates misogyny - can be used for capitalism.

[Exi5tentialist]

Exi5tentialist wrote:

...the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism...

You are certainly embracing your inner Marxist these days...

And what are you embracing when you spout Fascist Shit like this:-

Fuck 'em, I'm over stupid fucking muslims. They want to move to the west, they take the whole package and they leave their nasty misogyny behind, or GTFO...

?

We all know what you are deep down, JimC. That's why you're a moderator here. You keep the ideology of this place on the superior, hate-filled, islamophobic, racist and generally right-wing fascist straight and narrow.

[Hermit]

I'll challenge any argument about islam being the cause of women's oppression in muslim countries. [...] ALL have long histories of women's oppression and gender segregation.

Until quite recently there used to be not a lot of difference between how Muslim societies treated its women and how Christian societies did. Beginning with universal suffrage campaigns this has changed fairly rapidly on legislative, economic and to a lesser extent informal levels. While women under capitalism are still not on an equal footing to men, it would be a bit disingenuous to pretend that on average women in Islamic nations are not much worse off than women in secular capitalist ones with a Christian background. I do side with Richard Dawkins when he got sarcastic with someone who skated over that difference.

• Dear Muslima
  Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and … yawn … don't tell me yet again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and you can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
  Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep"chick", and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn't lay a finger on her, but even so …
  And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
  Richard

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries".

Anyone? Fuck off! Muslim countries are countries where Islam is predominant. While too many people use 'Muslim' as a racist slur, I do not, and I am certain that most members of this forum don't regard it as a denomination of race either. Even the most rabid racist is unlikely to claim that the Muslims living in the world's most populous Muslim-majority country, Indonesia, are of the same race as those of Egypt, Sudan or Turkey. And that's ignoring the fact that Indonesia itself is not of one homogenetic ethnicity. It's biggest one, the Javanese, are not even the majority of the population.

It is a pity that so few of the vast majority in every country are not aware that they have more in common with the vast majority of all other countries than the upper crusts of their own that govern them. That said, if I were a woman I'd much rather live in Israel than any Islamic country (even Turkey, the most moderate of them all).

[Exi5tentialist]

Fuck 'em, I'm over stupid fucking muslims. They want to move to the west, they take the whole package and they leave their nasty misogyny behind, or GTFO...

And while we're at it you're a fine one to talk about nasty misogyny. When the nasty misogyny erupts on this forum, you just sit there grunting with laughter and encouraging every rape joke, every fucking denigration of women's anatomy that gets posted and you just let it pass without comment or you encourage it with further hatred. It is all so fucking funny to you. And then you have the fucking cheek to side-step my arguments and engage in personal abuse about me being a marxist? And you fucking believe you uphold some stupid, vacuous "attack the argument, not the person" rule? It's shit, man. Everything you come out with is hypocritical shit.

[pErvinalia]

Exi5tentialist wrote:

...the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism...

You are certainly embracing your inner Marxist these days...

And what are you embracing when you spout Fascist Shit like this:-

Fuck 'em, I'm over stupid fucking muslims. They want to move to the west, they take the whole package and they leave their nasty misogyny behind, or GTFO...

?

We all know what you are deep down, JimC. That's why you're a moderator here. You keep the ideology of this place on the superior, hate-filled, islamophobic, racist and generally right-wing fascist straight and narrow.

So it's a right-wing echo chamber now? Man, I'm confused. Seth reckons it's a left wing echo chamber.

[Exi5tentialist]

I'll challenge any argument about islam being the cause of women's oppression in muslim countries. [...] ALL have long histories of women's oppression and gender segregation.

Until quite recently there used to be not a lot of difference between how Muslim societies treated its women and how Christian societies did. Beginning with universal suffrage campaigns this has changed fairly rapidly on legislative, economic and to a lesser extent informal levels. While women under capitalism are still not on an equal footing to men, it would be a bit disingenuous to pretend that on average women in Islamic nations are not much worse off than women in secular capitalist ones with a Christian background. I do side with Richard Dawkins when he got sarcastic with someone who skated over that difference.

• Dear Muslima
  Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and … yawn … don't tell me yet again, I know you aren't allowed to drive a car, and you can't leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you'll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.
  Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep"chick", and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn't lay a finger on her, but even so …
  And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.
  Richard

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries".

Anyone? Fuck off! Muslim countries are countries where Islam is predominant. While too many people use 'Muslim' as a racist slur, I do not, and I am certain that most members of this forum don't regard it as a denomination of race either. Even the most rabid racist is unlikely to claim that the Muslims living in the world's most populous Muslim-majority country, Indonesia, are of the same race as those of Egypt, Sudan or Turkey. And that's ignoring the fact that Indonesia itself is not of one homogenetic ethnicity. It's biggest one, the Javanese, are not even the majority of the population.

It is a pity that so few of the vast majority in every country are not aware that they have more in common with the vast majority of all other countries than the upper crusts of their own that govern them. That said, if I were a woman I'd much rather live in Israel than any Islamic country (even Turkey, the most moderate of them all).

Every diatribe against "muslim countries" feeds the militaristic propaganda that they are inferior and that we need to exert our civilised, imperialist bomb-ridden civilisation on them. To carry on slating islamic culture while at the same time ignoring the West's bombing campaign in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria and Libya is just stupid.

There is no excuse for ignoring the West's bombing.

I am bored with people who push it aside as a factor in the attitude of the world's muslims towards the west. I mean how fucking hypocritical - criticising the people of Afghanistan for upholding an oppressive religion when our original intention was to bomb them back to the stone age anyway. Narratives against islam have the sole, solitary purpose of anaesthetising opposition to the West's next bombing campaign. The West's fascist militarism won't stop until the fascist denigration of islam stops.