Muslim Ban Over Handshake. Whaddayareckon Liberals?

[NineBerry]

I'll challenge any idea that there are specific single causes to complex social issues.

[pErvinalia]

I'll challenge any argument about islam being the cause of women's oppression in muslim countries. Women's oppression is a form of economic exclusion and it happens EVERYWHERE.

Genuine question - What exactly is "economic exclusion"? What's it's purpose?

[pErvinalia]

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries". We have become studious in not conflating Israel with Jews but when it comes to muslims some of us mix the concepts of State, Nation and Religion up quite freely. It's hypocritical, racist and stereotyping. It's the politics of the extreme right.

This is disingenuous. There is only ONE jewish state, Israel. But there are a lot of muslim countries. You can't refer to the latter by a single name like you can the former.

[JimC]

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries". We have become studious in not conflating Israel with Jews but when it comes to muslims some of us mix the concepts of State, Nation and Religion up quite freely. It's hypocritical, racist and stereotyping. It's the politics of the extreme right.

This is disingenuous. There is only ONE jewish state, Israel. But there are a lot of muslim countries. You can't refer to the latter by a single name like you can the former.

Good point, but it also means that when we say "muslim countries", we have to accept they vary in many ways, including how strongly Islam impinges on people's lives (particularly women). I accept that there are muslim countries where there is quite a lot less discrimination against women than, say, Saudi Arabia.

However, even though there may be a range of factors influencing how women are treated across the world, Islam is certainly one of the important ones. In areas where fundamentalist versions of Islam dominate, it is crystal clear that the lives of women are adversely affected, directly via the dominant religion.

[pErvinalia]

It's a bit of a chicken and egg question, and I don't really know the answer. What's the causal factor? Is bigotry the causal factor of religion, or is it the other way around? Or can it be both at the same time - like a self reinforcing system?

[JimC]

Bigotry is a general problem that can occur in the absence of religion. However, I suspect that religious bigotry will often me more intense, as religious fervour can amplify us/them negative emotions...

[pErvinalia]

yeah, so it might not be the case that religion is the root cause of these problems, but it sure amplifies the effects.

[Exi5tentialist]

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries". We have become studious in not conflating Israel with Jews but when it comes to muslims some of us mix the concepts of State, Nation and Religion up quite freely. It's hypocritical, racist and stereotyping. It's the politics of the extreme right.

This is disingenuous. There is only ONE jewish state, Israel. But there are a lot of muslim countries. You can't refer to the latter by a single name like you can the former.

Disingenuous? This is after you tell me to "learn to read" then you ask me why I am getting so angry? And you call ME disingenuous? Don't give me that shit about attacking the argument not the person. You know what you fucking mean and so does everybody else. Your modus operandi is to denigrate, dismiss, belittle and then you deny you're doing that but you never address the principle so you get these discussions bogged down in irrelevant detail. So now you call me disingenuous because of a singular-plural issue as if it FUCKING MATTERS that there is only one Jewish majority country when there are multiple Muslim majority countries??? You only need once to refer to "The jewish country" to realise how fucking racist it is yet you talk casually of "muslim countries" and accuse anyone of making the comparison of being disingenuous??? You really know exactly how to deploy small minded, unprincipled, bigoted and utterly pathetic arguments, don't you? Jeez what a load of shit you talk.

[Exi5tentialist]

yeah, so it might not be the case that religion is the root cause of these problems, but it sure amplifies the effects.

Stop talking absolute shit will you? All this bollocks about Islam only became popular since people realised they could use it as an alternative to being racist about "Pakis". Get a grip and get off your racist high horse for once and start talking about the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism.

[pErvinalia]

So, yes it is completely racist for anyone to refer to "muslim countries". We have become studious in not conflating Israel with Jews but when it comes to muslims some of us mix the concepts of State, Nation and Religion up quite freely. It's hypocritical, racist and stereotyping. It's the politics of the extreme right.

This is disingenuous. There is only ONE jewish state, Israel. But there are a lot of muslim countries. You can't refer to the latter by a single name like you can the former.

Disingenuous? This is after you tell me to "learn to read" then you ask me why I am getting so angry? And you call ME disingenuous? Don't give me that shit about attacking the argument not the person. You know what you fucking mean and so does everybody else. Your modus operandi is to denigrate, dismiss, belittle and then you deny you're doing that but you never address the principle so you get these discussions bogged down in irrelevant detail. So now you call me disingenuous because of a singular-plural issue as if it FUCKING MATTERS that there is only one Jewish majority country when there are multiple Muslim majority countries??? You only need once to refer to "The jewish country" to realise how fucking racist it is yet you talk casually of "muslim countries" and accuse anyone of making the comparison of being disingenuous??? You really know exactly how to deploy small minded, unprincipled, bigoted and utterly pathetic arguments, don't you? Jeez what a load of shit you talk.

Nice rant. 8/10.

[pErvinalia]

yeah, so it might not be the case that religion is the root cause of these problems, but it sure amplifies the effects.

Stop talking absolute shit will you? All this bollocks about Islam only became popular since people realised they could use it as an alternative to being racist about "Pakis". Get a grip and get off your racist high horse for once and start talking about the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism.

Jeez, I'm a racist as well as a paedophile. I really need to take a look at myself...

[Exi5tentialist]

yeah, so it might not be the case that religion is the root cause of these problems, but it sure amplifies the effects.

Stop talking absolute shit will you? All this bollocks about Islam only became popular since people realised they could use it as an alternative to being racist about "Pakis". Get a grip and get off your racist high horse for once and start talking about the real causes of oppression: capitalism, economic deprivation and western militarism.

Jeez, I'm a racist as well as a paedophile. I really need to take a look at myself..

Yes you do. For starters you won't address any of the issues I raise, you just make stupid sarky remarks like that one. Secondly you don't fully appreciate that these abusive forces you refer to are supported by swathes of ideological and pseudo intellectual rationalizations. That's where you come in. Your position is one of the most reactionary and right wing on this already extremely right wing website and you spout all this rubbish daily. Pappa must be proud to have you here.

[Tyrannical]

Wow.

Lol

[Exi5tentialist]

None of you can address the fucking issue. You just spout crap then you make some snotty comment then you carry on as before.

"Lol" - is that all you can fucking say? Pile of shit argument that is. Pathetic.

[Exi5tentialist]

In this instance, I think I side with the Musselmen. There doesn't seem to be a valid legal basis for deportation because the kid doesn't want to shake hands. If it's a problem for the school, then the kid can go to another school.

Don't ask why you should kick them out. Ask why you ever let them immigrate in the first place.

Islamophobic, racist shit.