Fucking savages

[Hermit]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?

I am not arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan. I am saying that the (mainly) US occupation of Afghanistan is not succeeding in stopping the shit that keeps happening in Afghanistan, and I think I have provided plenty of evidence in support of my assertion.

[Svartalf]

Of Course the Pakis are helping the Talibans... I just stated they used to be, and possibly still are, an unofficial arm of their foreign policy, though one with bigger teeth than the would be masters expected.

[Svartalf]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?

The fact you seem to be assuming that the problem is not as large as it actually is and that a full scale and long term military occupation and deculturation campaign will be necessary?
The Afghan may have been pretty liberal in their islam before 1979, but when the taliban gave the last shove that pushed the russians out, they seem to have adopted the party line. If the locals were outraged by talib stonings, the executioners would have had 'acidents', and it's close family that performs 'honor killings', not the religious police.

[JimC]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?

One can agree that the situation in Pakistan is a major factor in Afghani events, and that the Taliban receives much assistance from elements there, without having any optimism whatsoever that the US or anybody else can change that...

About Afghanistan, my pessimism is at the Crumple end of the scale. And the scale doesn't go any fucking higher...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If anybody's fucking savages, we want pix.

[Schneibster]

I am not arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan.

Well, that's what the thread appears to be about. Apparently you didn't notice.

I am saying that the (mainly) US occupation of Afghanistan is not succeeding in stopping the shit that keeps happening in Afghanistan, and I think I have provided plenty of evidence in support of my assertion.

And it never occurs to you that there might be a reason why? And that it might be because Pakistan is supplying the terrorists with food, weapons, money, and safe haven?

It might work lots better if they weren't doing that. Duh.

[Schneibster]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?

The fact you seem to be assuming that the problem is not as large as it actually is and that a full scale and long term military occupation and deculturation campaign will be necessary?

What are you talking about? I have no idea where you got that. I think nothing of the kind.

If you want to know what I think maybe you should ask me.

The Afghan may have been pretty liberal in their islam before 1979, but when the taliban gave the last shove that pushed the russians out, they seem to have adopted the party line. If the locals were outraged by talib stonings, the executioners would have had 'acidents', and it's close family that performs 'honor killings', not the religious police.

OK.

[Schneibster]

Exactly.

So?

The fact that a major source of support for the Taliban (and al Quaeda) lies in Pakistan is no news to me.

Then why are you arguing about what's necessary to stop the shit in Afghanistan?

One can agree that the situation in Pakistan is a major factor in Afghani events, and that the Taliban receives much assistance from elements there, without having any optimism whatsoever that the US or anybody else can change that...

I didn't say anyone can. What I said is no one can until the Pakistanis stop fucking with it. Those are two completely separate thoughts.

You know, it really irritates me when people assume they know what I think.

[rachelbean]

If anybody's fucking savages, we want pix.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If anybody's fucking savages, we want pix.

[mistermack]

I look on Afghanistan as another planet. I don't care what they do to each other.
What I object to is Afghans coming here, and bringing that shit with them.

We should have a list of countries who's illegal immigrants get sent straight back, and Afghanistan should be number one. And Pakistan number two and Somalia three.
With a national attitude to women that is at odds with western values, they should have no right at all to asylum. It's like giving asylum to plague carriers.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I look on Afghanistan as another planet. I don't care what they do to each other.

Unfortunately, this planet is all together too small to allow that luxury.

[charlou]

I look on Afghanistan as another planet. I don't care what they do to each other.
What I object to is Afghans coming here, and bringing that shit with them.

We should have a list of countries who's illegal immigrants get sent straight back, and Afghanistan should be number one. And Pakistan number two and Somalia three.
With a national attitude to women that is at odds with western values, they should have no right at all to asylum. It's like giving asylum to plague carriers.

Since I doubt that the trend would be for western society to become infected by the abhorrent values of other cultures, having already progressed to more ethical ones, I think it more likely that the immigrants will adopt ours. We set the example, not them. We have established laws by which, by immigrating, they agree and are obliged to live and we can enforce those laws. By ensuring there is employment, social support and trying to avoid ghettoisation, we can make a difference to how other people view and assimilate into western culture ... in my view. Fuck, just being friendly to people of any cultural background when interacting must make a difference to how we're perceived, and on a more personal level, likely makes a difference to how the individual feels in that moment ... many, many such moments and they'll feel good about their chosen new life ... just as most people do when life is pleasant and positive.

[Hermit]

We should have a list of countries who's illegal immigrants get sent straight back, and Afghanistan should be number one. And Pakistan number two and Somalia three.
With a national attitude to women...

"Go back to where you come from, Ayaan Hirsi Ali."

[Robert_S]

I look on Afghanistan as another planet. I don't care what they do to each other.
What I object to is Afghans coming here, and bringing that shit with them.

We should have a list of countries who's illegal immigrants get sent straight back, and Afghanistan should be number one. And Pakistan number two and Somalia three.
With a national attitude to women that is at odds with western values, they should have no right at all to asylum. It's like giving asylum to plague carriers.

Since I doubt that the trend would be for western society to become infected by the abhorrent values of other cultures, having already progressed to more ethical ones, I think it more likely that the immigrants will adopt ours. We set the example, not them. We have established laws by which, by immigrating, they agree and are obliged to live and we can enforce those laws. By ensuring there is employment, social support and trying to avoid ghettoisation, we can make a difference to how other people view and assimilate into western culture ... in my view. Fuck, just being friendly to people of any cultural background when interacting must make a difference to how we're perceived, and on a more personal level, likely makes a difference to how the individual feels in that moment ... many, many such moments and they'll feel good about their chosen new life ... just as most people do when life is pleasant and positive.

That's one thing regarding Islam that the US has been fairly good at I think. Except in our more backward areas, we tend to have gotten over our tendency to ghettoize newcomers to a large degree.