Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for me

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Gawdzilla Sama
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:18 pm

Mac_Guffin wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Jay G wrote:I adopt the attitude ascribed by Pat Condell to Jews (not entirely accurate, but close) "I don't care what you believe so long as you leave me the hell alone" !!
Lovely in theory, but here Rick Perry, et al., doesn't want to leave us alone. He wants to decide what we can think. Brings out the feral in me.
Yeah, but Rick Perry isn't EVERY religious person.
Many religious people are like you and me, but perhaps a bit more scared of the nothingness in death, the absense of a father figure, etc. It brings them comfort, and who am I to rob them of that? All of us delude ourselves just a little so we can enjoy life. Do you think of the dark truth of the human condition on a daily basis? I guess no... We wake, up, enjoy our coffee while comfortably reading about hell in the middle east, go have a wank maybe, do what we gotta do for the daty, talk to friends on and off ratz, maybe have another wank... or two... have some time with our S.O.s or maybe our hands again... or both and we go to sleep.
Ok, I'm rambling.
I didn't say Perry was EVERY religious person. :fp: It's like drivers. The safe ones are no problem. The crazy ones are.
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mac_Guffin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:19 pm

Jay G wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
Jay G wrote:I adopt the attitude ascribed by Pat Condell to Jews (not entirely accurate, but close) "I don't care what you believe so long as you leave me the hell alone" !!
Lovely in theory, but here Rick Perry, et al., doesn't want to leave us alone. He wants to decide what we can think. Brings out the feral in me.

I live in the NYC area where there's lots of diversity and people tend to mind their own business. I guess I would see things differently if I lived in "God's Country".
It's really not that bad in my area... ata football game, you might get people staring when you don't pray... but I used to walk around with a Bad Religion shirt until it wore out and no one even looked at me.
Even in my little redneck college town, I see Darwin fish and Cthulhu fish on cars. :{D

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mac_Guffin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:27 pm

Audley Strange wrote:
Mac_Guffin wrote:After dealing with some real trolls, I don't view you in sucha bad light anymore... I still disagree with you on many things, but on this, I think you're being rational. :)
Not sure if I like the label... I'm starting to sour on labels in general, hence my problem with "atheism".
I definitely won't avoid the term, but I won't be so focused.
Ditch labels. Refuse to accept classification other than Human, that's quite enough.
Fuck that shit. I don't even want human. :awesomecat:

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mac_Guffin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:32 pm

rachelbean wrote:I am an atheist and I like feeling free to be open about that, but I don't want people to think of me as "Rachel the Atheist" (and I don't think they do for the most part). I know/have known many wonderfully loving Christians (ones who focus on the love parts and, even many who don't believe in hell) and have no desire to tear apart their world view even if I think it's nonsense. I know that nothing made me cling to my faith more than it being attacked, and I only came to atheism through my own seeking of knowledge and it's where the road inevitably led. Because of growing up in the church I still know quite a few people (including my family) with Christian beliefs of varying degrees, and with a few exceptions we have managed to remain friends and have conversations about things without any need for declaring war :dunno:
I still wan t to be open, just perhaps not so in your face and confrontational... like a warrior of sorts. People look at people like that as a mockery, I hate to say.

I was the same... I remember arguing with the singer of thestreet punk band UK Subs actually on their website I think... quite surreal :lol:
and I remember how uncomfortable it was having the very little faith I had just being in danger. It scared the shit out of me. I didn't really come to terms with my loss of faith until I met a guy who was atheist, but just carefree and not confrontational. I had to kind of slip into it.

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Gallstones » Fri Dec 16, 2011 7:01 pm

I have no problem referring to myself as an atheist Catholic, because it is the most accurate term to describe my mindset when it comes to cultural and theistic position.

Unless it comes up, and it rarely ever does, I don't bother mentioning it at all.
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Incognita » Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:12 pm

I wouldn't go round with one of those red A badges or even a teeshirt. I don't go much for wearing messages. I have occasionally worn a discreet "happy Humanist pin". The only message teeshirts I've ever had, apart from a college one,are one about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and one with the slogan "Die Gedanken sind Frei". This latter is related to the song of the same name, which is often sung at international Humanist and atheist meetings in various languages. It is a 19th-century song of the socialist and freethought movements.



So I don't go around waving my beliefs in everyone's faces, but I am still a committed secularist and the atheism is almost incidental. I feel secularism is something worth fighting for.

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mac_Guffin » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:06 pm

Gallstones wrote:I have no problem referring to myself as an atheist Catholic, because it is the most accurate term to describe my mindset when it comes to cultural and theistic position.

Unless it comes up, and it rarely ever does, I don't bother mentioning it at all.
I'm a bit of a Catholic atheist myself. it's hard not to be since southern Louisiana is so steeped in Catholic culture.

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by JimC » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:46 pm

Audley Strange wrote:I think, perhaps, the term is not useful. I may be wrong but I don't think it's people's personal belief in God that we have an issue with as a group as much as it is the political clout religions have and how detrimental that can be when extremists take control. Is that not the same with any political ideology, of any belief? I don't mind if the lady who cleans my stairs believes in Astrology, but I would mind if Astrologists suddenly demanded no one was allowed to drink red wine if there was a full moon on the last Sunday of the year and that those who did not accept their theories should be penalised or shunned.

It is not the Belief in God that bothers me, it is the propensity of those who truly believe something as some utopian panacea that ALL must adhere to or die. Fuck all those scumbags.
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Tero » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:48 pm

I'm an old atheist. Joseph McCabe is all I need. Why when Joe and I went drinking in 1950...
International disaster, gonna be a blaster
Gonna rearrange our lives
International disaster, send for the master
Don't wait to see the white of his eyes
International disaster, international disaster
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by hadespussercats » Sat Dec 17, 2011 12:53 am

I like the title Atheist because it feels deliberate. I'm not floating in an indeterminate puddle of I'm not religious, but I'm spiritual...
I've given a lot of thought to God. I've chosen to do without.
The green careening planet
spins blindly in the dark
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mac_Guffin » Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:41 am

I'm not spriritual either... I'm just tired of indentifying as an atheist. Of course if I'm asked, I'm an atheist, but I'm tired of being so preachy with it.

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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Robert_S » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:22 am

A guy I know just says "I have no supernatural beliefs" when asked.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by hadespussercats » Sat Dec 17, 2011 4:32 am

Robert_S wrote:A guy I know just says "I have no supernatural beliefs" when asked.
That wouldn't work for me. I can't shake certain superstitions-- like knocking on wood or tempting the fates or karma-- no matter how hard I try.
Never mind the ghoulies and ghosties I believe in when the world is dark and weird.
The green careening planet
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Hermit » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:29 am

Jay G wrote:Goering was quoted as saying that "whenever somebody speaks to me of intelligence, I reach for my pistol".
"Whenever I hear the word 'culture' I reach for my revolver."
The actual quote is "Wenn ich Kultur höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning!" This translates as: "Whenever I hear [the word] 'culture'... I remove the safety from my Browning!"
This quote is often mistakenly attributed to leading Nazi Hermann Goering, or occasionally to Julius Streicher, a lower-ranking Nazi. This misattribution may date from the famous Frank Capra documentaries (Why We Fight) shown to American troops before shipping out.
In fact, it is a line uttered by the character Thiemann in Act 1, Scene 1 of the play Schlageter, written by Hanns Johst. The association with Nazism is appropriate, as the play was first performed in April 1933, in honor of Hitler's birthday.
Baldur von Schirach, head of the Hitlerjugend, delivered this sentence in a public speech, circa 1938. A footage of the scene, with von Schirach actually drawing his gun, appears in Frederic Rossif's documentary "from Nurnberg to Nurnberg".
Notes: It is possible that this is actually a rather more felicitous phrase in translation than it is in the original. Both the original German and this English translation were juxtaposed by Howard Thomas in his review of an article by Nicholas H. Battey in the Journal of Experimental Biology, December 2002, as "the famous words of Hanns Johst: 'Wenn ich Kultur höre ... entsichere ich meinen Browning' – 'Whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver.'"
The phrase itself may be a play on words as the word Browning may refer to both a pistol and the English poet Robert Browning.
Additionally it should be noted that a Browning (most likely the M1935 High-Power) is not a revolver, but a magazine-fed semi-automatic pistol. However, at the time the word "Browning" was used to refer to any pistol, much as "Colt" is used for any revolver in westerns.(Link)
Rum wrote:Maybe when atheists were a small minority and it was very much the norm to have a religion it was understandable to label something which was actually relatively rare.

Nowadays it is a different matter and I agree - the word is actually redundant.
Well, it will be once theists have become a numerically and functionally insignificant part of the total human population. Until then I have no problem wearing the label 'atheist'.
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Re: Atheism as a label,movement,etc. is starting to sour for

Post by Mousy » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:43 am

I recently had a discussion with a Muslim fellow on another forum about me calling myself 'atheist', which he says I shouldn't. He did, however, say that 'all atheists are rats'. I wasn't particularly offended by that, because rats are intelligent, adaptable and sociable mammals, but I understood that he meant it in a negative way. He said that instead of calling myself 'atheist' I should call myself 'nothing', and I replied that I am not 'nothing' because that implies never having thought about the matter, whereas I'd actually given it a great deal of consideration. He told me that my thoughts couldn't possibly be summed up with 'atheist' and asked me to elaborate.
Of course, when I did, he started arguing with me about my thoughts... :lol:

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