Palestine v Israel.

[Scot Dutchy]

It seems depressingly clear to me that, whatever the discussions or justifications for either side, there is so much entrenched hatred that violence and death will continue in the Middle East for the foreseeable future...

The Middle East does not know any other way to live. There has never been peace. It is not in their vocabulary. It is all about hate. Both sides hate each other. This is not your commoner garden hate. This is a hate that is fed to them from birth. It is a true loathing which raised its ugly head during the Irish Troubles but thanks to everything both sides in that conflict were brought to their senses. I doubt this will ever happen in the Middle East. It is one of those big "What if" moments. The trouble is the genie as long been out of the bottle that the bottle has disappeared.

[Cunt]

I don't think one is evil and the other good. But it is clear who the oppressor is in the relationship. As I said, the ridiculously long list of violations of UN resolutions by the Israeli's should leave no one in any doubt who is the oppressor here. But again, I'm not surprised that you side with an oppressor. You side with individuals and groups like Trumpists, white nationalists and anti-BLM groups who want to oppress a good segment of the US population.

I think it is Hamas who is credited with the bombings. Is that who you are supporting with your shitty accusations?

Looks good on you.

Yeah. Those oppressive Palestinians.



Bastids!

Historical ignorance looks good on you.

And siding with the gang that wants the Jews all killed is your 'better than me'?

OK, you go enjoy living under a Caliphate, and I'll stick to the modern world I've grown to prefer.

By the way, does Palestine oppress all the minority religions? Does Israel? Which country respects human rights the way that we have learned to love?

Theological ignorance looks good on you.

[Hermit]

And siding with the gang that wants the Jews all killed is your 'better than me'?

Huh? All I'm doing is to point out to you that the Palestinians had almost all of their land stolen, and they are fighting to get it back.

OK, you go enjoy living under a Caliphate

Where the fuck do you get that notion from?

[Sean Hayden]

I think he's saying you can't oppress a savage, or it's necessary or something

[Hermit]

I think he's saying you can't oppress a savage, or it's necessary or something

Our member from Yellowknife is saying "Four feet Israelis good, two feet Palestinians bad."

[Cunt]

And siding with the gang that wants the Jews all killed is your 'better than me'?

Huh? All I'm doing is to point out to you that the Palestinians had almost all of their land stolen, and they are fighting to get it back.

It's funny how different that sounds from an 'Israel-friendly' perspective.

It nearly seems like you haven't heard their side.

OK, you go enjoy living under a Caliphate

Where the fuck do you get that notion from?

Well, Israel allows all religions, including in their elected government.

Now, you do the math if you want, but there is one religion that, when it controls a country, doesn't allow religious minorities. It used to be called 'intolerant'.

I know what I prefer. Don't know why you would choose Hamas/ISIS/Palestine over the only country in the area that supports similar human rights to the west.

Maybe you would prefer to live in a theocracy like Palestine, where Machmoud will SURELY schedule an election as soon as the crisis is past...

[Hermit]

And siding with the gang that wants the Jews all killed is your 'better than me'?

Huh? All I'm doing is to point out to you that the Palestinians had almost all of their land stolen, and they are fighting to get it back.

It's funny how different that sounds from an 'Israel-friendly' perspective.

It nearly seems like you haven't heard their side.

Actually, I heard it. According to the Tanakh as well as the Old Testament a God promised the sons of Abram whose descendants became known as the twelve Jewish tribes possession of the "land of milk and honey", but there was a proviso: They'll have to massacre or drive out all the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites who already lived there. The tribes succeeded, but around five centuries later the Romans under Hadrian drove them out in turn. 17 centuries after their expulsion the United Nations Organisation decided they could have most of it back again. The Jews happily took it, and then increasingly more (see map above).

OK, you go enjoy living under a Caliphate

Where the fuck do you get that notion from?

Well, Israel allows all religions, including in their elected government.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

[Brian Peacock]

[Cunt]

It nearly seems like you haven't heard their side.

Actually, I heard it. According to the Tanakh as well as the Old Testament a God promised the sons of Abram whose descendants became known as the twelve Jewish tribes possession of the "land of milk and honey", but there was a proviso: They'll have to massacre or drive out all the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites who already lived there. The tribes succeeded, but around five centuries later the Romans under Hadrian drove them out in turn. 17 centuries after their expulsion the United Nations Organisation decided they could have most of it back again. The Jews happily took it, and then increasingly more (see map above).

Funny story.

I listened to Ben Shapiro's take on it. As a self-declared Jew, and fan of Israel, he made a MUCH more thoughtful case for their side.

He mentioned religion very little.

I know his voice is squeaky and irritating, but you might find he has more info on this than you have.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

You are taking the side of one here.

Over a modern country, with a diverse government and human rights that more closely match yours and mine.

I did make a bit of a leap, but you are taking the side of the theocracy here.

Didn't they just cancel an upcoming election because of this recent crisis? I mean, it's a theocracy, so elections probably mean something different, but I think they still have them.

[Hermit]

It nearly seems like you haven't heard their side.

Actually, I heard it. According to the Tanakh as well as the Old Testament a God promised the sons of Abram whose descendants became known as the twelve Jewish tribes possession of the "land of milk and honey", but there was a proviso: They'll have to massacre or drive out all the Kenites, Kenizzites, Kadmonites, Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites, Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites who already lived there. The tribes succeeded, but around five centuries later the Romans under Hadrian drove them out in turn. 17 centuries after their expulsion the United Nations Organisation decided they could have most of it back again. The Jews happily took it, and then increasingly more (see map above).

Funny story.

I listened to Ben Shapiro's take on it. As a self-declared Jew, and fan of Israel, he made a MUCH more thoughtful case for their side.

I told you about their side. If you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

You are taking the side of one here.

Over a modern country, with a diverse government and human rights that more closely match yours and mine.

I did make a bit of a leap, but you are taking the side of the theocracy here.

I did not even mention religion until you did.

[aufbahrung]

Spanish vs Inca...Spanish still here. No one likes the details modern cameras provide. Not even the Spanish.

[Cunt]

I told you about their side. If you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

I don't doubt that is what you know about that side of things.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

You are taking the side of one here.

Over a modern country, with a diverse government and human rights that more closely match yours and mine.

I did make a bit of a leap, but you are taking the side of the theocracy here.

I did not even mention religion until you did.

Yes. It probably isn't good to mention religion.

[Hermit]

I told you about their side. If you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

I don't doubt that is what you know about that side of things.

So, if you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

You are taking the side of one here.

Over a modern country, with a diverse government and human rights that more closely match yours and mine.

I did make a bit of a leap, but you are taking the side of the theocracy here.

I did not even mention religion until you did.

Yes. It probably isn't good to mention religion.

More to the point, you cannot argue that I take the side of the theocracy when I did not even mention it.

[JimC]

Pointing out the historical injustices inflicted on the Palestinians by Zionist settlers does not mean turning a blind eye to current day Islamic intolerance, or ignoring those aspects of Israeli society which are relatively free (at least for Jews...). It's simply painting a clear, real historical picture with explanatory power regarding the current violence.

And, from all I have read and seen, the main motivating force of the Palestinians is not pure Islamic fervour, as would be the case with Isis or the Taliban, but largely the bitter anger of the dispossessed and marginalised. Any Islamic motivation is a minor add on...

[Cunt]

I told you about their side. If you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

I don't doubt that is what you know about that side of things.

So, if you tell me what is wrong with it instead of airily waving your hands in the general direction of what Ben Shapiro said somewhere else, we can continue that part of the discussion.

No thanks. I accept what you know about it, and understand your position.

If you want to know what he presents as another perspective, you can access it easily enough. I'm satisfied that I understand both of you enough.

How do you go from there to conclude that I should "go enjoy living under a Caliphate"? Did I ever express an opinion that I prefer living in a theocratic dictatorship?

You are taking the side of one here.

Over a modern country, with a diverse government and human rights that more closely match yours and mine.

I did make a bit of a leap, but you are taking the side of the theocracy here.

I did not even mention religion until you did.

Yes. It probably isn't good to mention religion.

More to the point, you cannot argue that I take the side of the theocracy when I did not even mention it.

Palestine, the side you seemed to take, is a theocracy.

My apologies if I misunderstood you, but your insistence that they are victims made me think you were taking their side over Israel.

To me, with their relative approaches to using violence, it's pretty clear who is who.