All Things Biden: Is It Over Yet?

[L'Emmerdeur]

I'm not blaming Ukraine--they'll take whatever they can get. They likely asked for the cluster munitions--serve the Russians back some of what they've been dishing out. Biden deciding to give them is what I'm questioning. It's not as if the US arsenal were running low on regular munitions. Nor as if conventional modern weapons are ineffective.

[Brian Peacock]

Nothing like letting someone with lower ethical standards set your own moral boundaries.

Given that they are fighting for survival, Ukraine may have a different perspective on the ethics of the situation...

The manufacture, sale or transport if these munitions is banned by 120 countries for a reason. In my view, if you want to maintain any legitimacy as the 'good guys' you don't do things like bomb civilians, shoot prisoners, or deploy chemical/biological weapons and other banned munitions.

[aufbahrung]

They are dissecting them cluster bombs and fitting the individual sub-bombs to drones. Can they even be classed as cluster munitions at that point? I'm treading a fine line here between agreeing and not with their deployment. But when they have been dissected they are not quite the same horror as the original firework's display, maybe more humane and quick than a shrapnel grenade that is allowed on the field of play even? In a ideal world nobody dies in a war. I think if the Russian must die - a bomb on the nugget is more ethical than a piece of shrapnel and dying weeks later.

[JimC]

The only real ethical question about cluster munitions, whether delivered by shell, rocket or bomb is the failure rate of the munitions, in that the ones that fail to explode immediately may present a real danger in the future to civilians. Apparently, more recent US batches have a much lower failure rate (which makes their military use more effective, of course...). Personally, I cannot see the risks being equivalent to Brian's comparisons:

...things like bomb civilians, shoot prisoners, or deploy chemical/biological weapons and other banned munitions.

It would be an important proviso if Ukraine took careful note of when and where they fired such munitions, so that clearance operations could be done in the future.

I'm sure Putin would agree to do the same...

[Brian Peacock]

The only real ethical question about cluster munitions, whether delivered by shell, rocket or bomb is the failure rate of the munitions, in that the ones that fail to explode immediately may present a real danger in the future to civilians. Apparently, more recent US batches have a much lower failure rate (which makes their military use more effective, of course...). Personally, I cannot see the risks being equivalent to Brian's comparisons:

...things like bomb civilians, shoot prisoners, or deploy chemical/biological weapons and other banned munitions.

It would be an important proviso if Ukraine took careful note of when and where they fired such munitions, so that clearance operations could be done in the future.

I'm sure Putin would agree to do the same...

What is an acceptable failure rate, and how many civilian or non-combatant casualties, mamings or fatalities, over what period of time, are an acceptable consequence of said failures?

[Brian Peacock]

Does the efficiency or military effectiveness of any weapon justify its use?

Does the use of one type of weapon by one side in a conflict legitimise its use by the other side?

[rasetsu]

All is fair in love and war.

[L'Emmerdeur]

They are dissecting them cluster bombs and fitting the individual sub-bombs to drones. Can they even be classed as cluster munitions at that point? I'm treading a fine line here between agreeing and not with their deployment. But when they have been dissected they are not quite the same horror as the original firework's display, maybe more humane and quick than a shrapnel grenade that is allowed on the field of play even? In a ideal world nobody dies in a war. I think if the Russian must die - a bomb on the nugget is more ethical than a piece of shrapnel and dying weeks later.

I see your point (article on Ukraine using dismantled weapons). Noting that while some may be put to that use, Ukraine is also likely to use them as delivered.

[Cunt]

Did you leave twitter because of media bias?

I left twitter because the owner is a twit.

In other news, rotten ideas can never survive without censorship.

[Tero]

Did you leave twitter because of media bias?

I left twitter because the owner is a twit.

In other news, rotten ideas can never survive without censorship.

You seem to have survived. I heard your town burned up.

[Tero]

Trump unhappy the Biden crime family charged with nothing but with some silly gun crime. The gun was never loaded.

[Tero]

[L'Emmerdeur]

Did you leave twitter because of media bias?

I left twitter because the owner is a twit.

In other news, rotten ideas can never survive without censorship.

That may explain why Musk has made such an effort to silence leftists and amplify bigots on the site he bought and is running into the ground.

[Tero]

Impeachment inquiry failed before it started
https://newrepublic.com/post/175482/rep ... eport?s=09

[Tero]

MTG has been holding back for 2 years:

"We are going to drag Biden and everyone who covered up his crimes through the headlines day after day, month after month, and prove to the country the entire Democrat party is corrupt and can’t be trusted. So no matter which candidate runs for president if they take Biden out, everyone will know the Democrat party is filled with liars and traitors. That, combined with Bidenomics’ destructive policies, will cause Democrats to lose big."