AmeriKKKa

[Sean Hayden]

*Kanye West

[Hermit]

I defend people. That I have an interest in generating an authentic sense of whiteness is not a fault.

An authentic sense of whiteness, whatever that is, does not negate the existence of white privilege.

[Sean Hayden]

That's true. It does however entail understanding it far better.

[Hermit]

That's true. It does however entail understanding it far better.

Give me an example of how an authentic sense of whiteness entails a far better understanding white privilege, please.

[pErvinalia]

What the hell is an "authentic sense of whiteness"?

[Sean Hayden]

Hermit: one of the problems some white people face is an inability to acknowledge their plight as a consequence of believing whites are better, or at least that they should be, even if only because they are privileged.

--//--

I think Seabass's willingness to cite the significance of privilege even for the homeless speaks for itself regarding the kind of trouble an inaccurate portrayal of whiteness can get into.

[Sean Hayden]

What the hell is an "authentic sense of whiteness"?

You've never wondered what being white has meant for you? It's definitely something you consider in the US. Unless you're the "gentrifiers" apparently...

[JimC]

By "generating an authentic sense of whiteness", Sean seems to mean pondering on how one being white affects one's place in US society. If so, fair enough...

[Hermit]

Hermit: one of the problems some white people face is an inability to acknowledge their plight as a consequence of believing whites are better, or at least that they should be, even if only because they are privileged.

Feeling particularly dense today, I need you to explain what you mean by that. Is the authentic sense of whiteness an inability to acknowledge their (blacks?) plight as a consequence of believing whites are better?

I think Seabass's willingness to cite the significance of privilege even for the homeless speaks for itself regarding the kind of trouble an inaccurate portrayal of whiteness can get into.

Seabass explained, convincingly in my view, why he cited the significance of privilege even for the homeless.

There are homeless white people in this country. This does not mean that white privilege doesn't exist. There are A LOT more black homeless than white homeless, and black homeless people are treated worse than white homeless people.

From The 2020 Annual Homeless Assessment Report to Congress

African Americans and indigenous people (including Native Americans and Pacific Islanders) remained considerably overrepresented among the homeless population compared to the U.S. population. People identifying as black or African American accounted for 39 percent of all people experiencing homelessness and 53 percent of people experiencing homelessness as members of families with children but are 12 percent of the total U.S. population.

As for homeless blacks being treated worse, I could not find any statistics, but since statistics show that blacks as a demographic sector of US society are treated worse than whites in every other aspect of their lives, I can't think of a reason why homeless blacks would be an exception.

Your objection about homelessness reminds me of our member from Yellowknife when he tried to dismiss racism, or at least minimise its significance, when he mentioned that there are poor and rich people among the whites in the US as well as among the blacks.

[Sean Hayden]

No, they may have accepted a concept of whiteness which distorts the effects of privilege such that they can't acknowledge being so bad off.

--//--

There are many facts about life which aren't particularly important. Being less likely to be assaulted as a white homeless person being one of them, to the homeless person of course. I hope they don't adopt your conception of whiteness, and its privilege, for their sake.

--//--

--go on and compare my thinking to Yellowknife's bullshit if it makes you feel better. Here's to your cardio

[JimC]

There are many facts about life which aren't particularly important. Being less likely to be assaulted as a white homeless person being one of them, to the homeless person of course. I hope they don't adopt your conception of whiteness, and its privilege, for their sake.

A rather obscure statement. It seems that you are implying that an individual, white homeless person will not gain much relief from knowing that statistically he (or she) is less likely in a statistical sense to be assaulted than the equivalent black person. Well yes, most likely, but that does not make it one of the "facts about life which aren't particularly important". It is one of the many examples of the systematic disadvantage suffered by blacks, definitely an important piece of the overall picture. As I've said earlier, I do not regard the term "privilege" is useful - comparative disadvantage says all that is required...

[Sean Hayden]

Not just no relief Jim, but no real advantage. If you think it translates into an advantage for any individual homeless I'd be interested in seeing your work.

[Sean Hayden]

By "generating an authentic sense of whiteness", Sean seems to mean pondering on how one being white affects one's place in US society. If so, fair enough...

From the previous page:

In addition to the emphasis on invisibility and privilege, a more promising recent trend in research on white racial identity is a focus on whiteness as a situated identity, not as an identity of uniform privilege but as a complex social identity whose meaning is impacted by the particular context in which white actors are located.

There is a lot of interesting reading in the articles I've linked to. None of it denies white privilege. Some of it does however challenge some people's understanding of it.

[JimC]

Not just no relief Jim, but no real advantage. If you think it translates into an advantage for any individual homeless I'd be interested in seeing your work.

Well, for the sake of argument, if stats showed that, taking 100 black homeless people and 100 white homeless people, and comparing how many were assaulted/got ill/died over a year, that 40 whites suffered such fate, vs, let's say, 70 blacks, then I'd call that a comparative advantage for white homeless people. No comfort for those who suffered such fates, of course, but real nonetheless...

[Sean Hayden]

Real for an individual white homeless in what way Jim? You've pointed out that he's part of a group which statistically is less likely to suffer some fate. How does that translate into an advantage for him?

What sort of assumptions can he make given this information? Can he even assume that he's likely to be okay?