Trump Supporters are Imbeciles

[Sean Hayden]

But I've always had several branches of government and a strong military. If your entire argument rest on how awful Trump is (I really ought to dig up all the awful other presidents have said, but bleh), or the prospect of an overpowering militia--funny, I seem to remember you belittling the same type of folk when they dared dream such dreams--then yeah, I'm fairly confident we won't become the next Nazi Germany.

[Brian Peacock]

Well we need to deal with them with the legal system and potentially with physical confrontation if the legal system loses its independence and/or the legislative system enshrines bigotry.

You seem to be advocating dialogue with these people. Not sure that's really possible. What we really need is our political leaders to start acting in a way that instils confidence and respect for the whole of society, not just the top few percent and their mates.

I don't think you're really picking up what I'm saying. What legal or physical remedies can the state impose on Trump supporters/voters, what would be the justification and what would they look like? Again we seem to be slipping back and forth between talking about fascists and Trump supporters, of conflating the two, and freely applying our justifications for opposing and resisting the former to the latter.

On your final point, I totally agree - and that's more along the lines of what I've been trying to talk about.

[Sean Hayden]

and yes, big business supports the neoliberals as well as the conservatives. Well, duh.

--you brought it up, "duh". Trump obviously doesn't enjoy the support of a lot of the money in this country --a shit-ton-- of the money or labor.

[pErvinalia]

Well we need to deal with them with the legal system and potentially with physical confrontation if the legal system loses its independence and/or the legislative system enshrines bigotry.

You seem to be advocating dialogue with these people. Not sure that's really possible. What we really need is our political leaders to start acting in a way that instils confidence and respect for the whole of society, not just the top few percent and their mates.

I don't think you're really picking up what I'm saying. What legal or physical remedies can the state impose on Trump supporters/voters, what would be the justification and what would they look like?

Acts of white nationalist murder and terrorism. Or even insurrection. We weren't far from that point when the armed thugs occupied the public space outside one of the states' legislative assembly. What if they went inside? What if they pointed guns at Democrats or the police? These things don't seem that far fetched. Or even just lower level racism and bigotry that is illegal.

[Seabass]

The genocide by the Nazis was not universal, by the way. Unless you were Jewish, Slav or Romani you had nothing to fear.

Similarly, if you are a white person living in the US, you have nothing to fear with regard to the Trump administration's racist and xenophobic policies and rhetoric...

[Sean Hayden]

What a stupid thing to say.

[pErvinalia]

What an empty thing to say. Explain yourself, Hayden!

[Brian Peacock]

Well we need to deal with them with the legal system and potentially with physical confrontation if the legal system loses its independence and/or the legislative system enshrines bigotry.

You seem to be advocating dialogue with these people. Not sure that's really possible. What we really need is our political leaders to start acting in a way that instils confidence and respect for the whole of society, not just the top few percent and their mates.

I don't think you're really picking up what I'm saying. What legal or physical remedies can the state impose on Trump supporters/voters, what would be the justification and what would they look like?

Acts of white nationalist murder and terrorism. Or even insurrection. We weren't far from that point when the armed thugs occupied the public space outside one of the states' legislative assembly. What if they went inside? What if they pointed guns at Democrats or the police? These things don't seem that far fetched. Or even just lower level racism and bigotry that is illegal.

Why did you slice off the second half of the paragraph if not to conflate Trump supporters/voters with fascists? I'm concerned with, and have been talking about, the automatic vilification of Trump supporters and casting them as 'the problem', and how that plays into the identity politics agenda of the Right. It's others who are playing the Godwin card and equating voting for Trump or the Republicans with being a tiki torch carrying hate monger. Nonetheless, I agree that an armed protest inside a state legislature looks very much like an act of terrorism - I mean, the use or the threat of violence to achieve political ends is basically the definition of the word. But this is America, where guns and their possession have a, erm, shall we just say, a rather unique and privileged status in society. Anyway. So on what basis, or to what extent, do you think that Trump supporters/voters back that type of action?

[Sean Hayden]

What an empty thing to say. Explain yourself, Hayden!

Sorry, what a shallow, stupid fucking thing to say.

[pErvinalia]

@Brian... I will admit that I'm assuming most of these arse-hats are Trump supporters, as they coincidentally started protesting lockdown when Trump started bleating about Freedum! Without reading back, I'm not sure it's necessary that these cretins are Trump supporters or not. I think I was just backing up Seabass in his statements about bigotry and racism. What matters is the outcomes of the actions of these stupid people. It does seem, however, that the Trump supporter is a special kind of stupid. It's becoming almost cult-like. What will these fools be driven to? I hope it's only getting themselves the corona and dying, but it could so easily be a lot more.

[pErvinalia]

What an empty thing to say. Explain yourself, Hayden!

Sorry, what a shallow, stupid fucking thing to say.

What a poopy-headed thing to say!

[Hermit]

But I've always had several branches of government and a strong military. If your entire argument rest on how awful Trump is (I really ought to dig up all the awful other presidents have said, but bleh), or the prospect of an overpowering militia--funny, I seem to remember you belittling the same type of folk when they dared dream such dreams--then yeah, I'm fairly confident we won't become the next Nazi Germany.

The US will most definitely not become the next Nazi Germany. It is moving away from whatever democracy it possesses. You have a president who thinks he has absolute authority to decide on all matters. He is putting men who are loyal to him into the judiciary. He'll get them into the many police forces and every branch of the administration next.

As for the militia, yes they are useless for war, but they are damn useful for suppressing the opposition. You do realise that Hitler's private army never went to war either, don't you? After the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923, which failed completely in just two days, Hitler changed tack. He decided to gain power through legal means rather than revolution or force, and though it took him another nine years after he was released from prison, that worked like a charm.

[Brian Peacock]

The genocide by the Nazis was not universal, by the way. Unless you were Jewish, Slav or Romani you had nothing to fear.

Similarly, if you are a white person living in the US, you have nothing to fear with regard to the Trump administration's racist and xenophobic policies and rhetoric...

Rather over egging the pudding there I think.

[Seabass]

The genocide by the Nazis was not universal, by the way. Unless you were Jewish, Slav or Romani you had nothing to fear.

Similarly, if you are a white person living in the US, you have nothing to fear with regard to the Trump administration's racist and xenophobic policies and rhetoric...

Rather over egging the pudding there I think.

"It’s actually not a real problem in America. The combined membership of every white supremacist organization in this country would be able to fit inside of a college football stadium." —Tucker Carlson

Do you think you'll find many black people who think that?

[Sean Hayden]

But I've always had several branches of government and a strong military. If your entire argument rest on how awful Trump is (I really ought to dig up all the awful other presidents have said, but bleh), or the prospect of an overpowering militia--funny, I seem to remember you belittling the same type of folk when they dared dream such dreams--then yeah, I'm fairly confident we won't become the next Nazi Germany.

The US will most definitely not become the next Nazi Germany. It is moving away from whatever democracy it possesses. You have a president who thinks he has absolute authority to decide on all matters. He is putting men who are loyal to him into the judiciary. He'll get them into the many police forces and every branch of the administration next.

As for the militia, yes they are useless for war, but they are damn useful for suppressing the opposition. You do realise that Hitler's private army never went to war either, don't you? After the Beer Hall Putsch in 1923, which failed completely in just two days, Hitler changed tack. He decided to gain power through legal means rather than revolution or force, and though it took him another nine years after he was released from prison, that worked like a charm.

Trump is the worst president I've had. Certain elements of the right will become more radicalized going forward. The future is uncertain. But I think our institutions are strong, and the damage done to the right by a rapidly changing zeitgeist they've failed to read is significant.