The Coronavirus Thread
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 73105
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Brian, all the information I've read suggests that those with a genuine medical reason to avoid vaccination are a very tiny minority indeed, and that many claiming that status are faking. So, their existence is not an important part of the whole vaccination mandate thing...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Yeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 73105
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Joe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.Joe wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 pmYeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Ah, I see. I misunderstood. That's what I get for posting while I'm working.JimC wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:10 amJoe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.Joe wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 pmYeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
"Wisdom requires a flexible mind." - Dan Carlin
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake
- JimC
- The sentimental bloke
- Posts: 73105
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
- About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
- Location: Melbourne, Australia
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!
And my gin!
- Scot Dutchy
- Posts: 19000
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
- About me: Dijkbeschermer
- Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38040
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
This is what I meant. Although small in number these kind of conditions make it unsafe for some people to go about their business as usual - vaccinated or not. Any mandatoled protocol, and any other govt measures, would ideally account for them - though at the moment the tendancy seems be to lump all the unvaccinated together as recalcitrant ninnies or anti socially-minded idiots. For example, processes should not just exempt people from vaccination but also not limit their ability to go to the supermarket, or force them back to the office, etc.JimC wrote:Joe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.Joe wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 pmYeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.
The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38040
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.Scot Dutchy wrote:That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Scot Dutchy
- Posts: 19000
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
- About me: Dijkbeschermer
- Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:15 amThis is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.Scot Dutchy wrote:That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38040
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
BTW: This is not only an counter factual and silly thing to say it contradicts your position. It means you're demanding that everyone be compelled to be vaccinated against a condition which at the same time nobody can define.Scot Dutchy wrote:... The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. ...
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38040
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
You have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.Scot Dutchy wrote:Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:15 amThis is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.Scot Dutchy wrote:That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Scot Dutchy
- Posts: 19000
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
- About me: Dijkbeschermer
- Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
You are doing it again. Covid infection or Covid death has many different definitions. The degree of infection is important. They vary from a cough to life threatening. The virus exists but the numbers are in question. That is why vaccination is required. Where did I say the virus does not exist? I question the numbers.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:21 amBTW: This is not only an counter factual and silly thing to say it contradicts your position. It means you're demanding that everyone be compelled to be vaccinated against a condition which at the same time nobody can define.Scot Dutchy wrote:... The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. ...
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
- Scot Dutchy
- Posts: 19000
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
- About me: Dijkbeschermer
- Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Yep here comes the vagueness. Making unjustifiable claims. "You have done this and this". Please Brian where have I swept all the vulnerable etc. into one pile? I have never mentioned them and only you have brought it up as an argument to mandatory vaccination when every normal person would accept there is bound to be exemptions. What I did mention is the religious nutters that attend over full churches five times on Sundays and refuse the vaccination because it is not written in the bible.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:27 amYou have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.Scot Dutchy wrote:Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:15 amThis is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.Scot Dutchy wrote:That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
- Brian Peacock
- Tipping cows since 1946
- Posts: 38040
- Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
- About me: Ablate me:
- Location: Location: Location:
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
I'm not being vague, I'm expressing a general principle. People with chronic conditions who have been advised not to get the vaccine shouldn't be lumped in with anti-vaxxers nor swept up in anti anti-vax sentiments, nor should they be obliged to return to the office or be excluded from other aspects of public life because they don't have the requisite QR code. I'm suggesting that we need to start being mindful of how we talk about this so that clinically vulnerable, long-term sick, and disabled people don't become the objects of vilification while we're taking pot shots at religious extremists and the conspiracy-nut-brigade.Scot Dutchy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:46 amYep here comes the vagueness. Making unjustifiable claims. "You have done this and this". Please Brian where have I swept all the vulnerable etc. into one pile? I have never mentioned them and only you have brought it up as an argument to mandatory vaccination when every normal person would accept there is bound to be exemptions. What I did mention is the religious nutters that attend over full churches five times on Sundays and refuse the vaccination because it is not written in the bible.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:27 amYou have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.Scot Dutchy wrote:Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.Brian Peacock wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:15 amThis is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.Scot Dutchy wrote:That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.
Details on how to do that can be found here.
.
"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
Frank Zappa
"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Scot Dutchy
- Posts: 19000
- Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
- About me: Dijkbeschermer
- Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
- Contact:
Re: The Coronavirus Thread
Just where did I mention this group or where did I dump them with other anti-vaxxers. Of course for every law there are exemptions and I fully realise that but the number of people who fall into that group is small and need full protection.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests