The Coronavirus Thread

[JimC]

Brian, all the information I've read suggests that those with a genuine medical reason to avoid vaccination are a very tiny minority indeed, and that many claiming that status are faking. So, their existence is not an important part of the whole vaccination mandate thing...

[Joe]

Yeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

[JimC]

Yeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Joe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.

The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...

[Joe]

Yeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Joe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.

The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...

Ah, I see. I misunderstood. That's what I get for posting while I'm working.

[JimC]

[Scot Dutchy]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah, after I heard a lady on the Darkhorse podcast talking about it, I checked the CDC website and they had reports of 2.5 cases per million doses of the Moderna vaccine , and 11.1 cases per million doses of the Pfizer vaccine.

Joe, they would be people who had no particular pre-existing medical condition that meant they should avoid the vaccines, but who fairly randomly suffered an adverse reaction.

The examples I was referring to are people who have known but very rare medical conditions where a doctor can be certain that the vaccines are a potential danger, so they don't get vaccinated, and can legitimately be exempt from vaccine mandates. They would probably advise such people to be extra careful about mask wearing and social distancing...

This is what I meant. Although small in number these kind of conditions make it unsafe for some people to go about their business as usual - vaccinated or not. Any mandatoled protocol, and any other govt measures, would ideally account for them - though at the moment the tendancy seems be to lump all the unvaccinated together as recalcitrant ninnies or anti socially-minded idiots. For example, processes should not just exempt people from vaccination but also not limit their ability to go to the supermarket, or force them back to the office, etc.

[Brian Peacock]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.

[Scot Dutchy]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.

Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.

[Brian Peacock]

... The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. ...

BTW: This is not only an counter factual and silly thing to say it contradicts your position. It means you're demanding that everyone be compelled to be vaccinated against a condition which at the same time nobody can define.

[Brian Peacock]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.

Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.

You have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.

[Scot Dutchy]

... The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. ...

BTW: This is not only an counter factual and silly thing to say it contradicts your position. It means you're demanding that everyone be compelled to be vaccinated against a condition which at the same time nobody can define.

You are doing it again. Covid infection or Covid death has many different definitions. The degree of infection is important. They vary from a cough to life threatening. The virus exists but the numbers are in question. That is why vaccination is required. Where did I say the virus does not exist? I question the numbers.

[Scot Dutchy]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.

Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.

You have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.

Yep here comes the vagueness. Making unjustifiable claims. "You have done this and this". Please Brian where have I swept all the vulnerable etc. into one pile? I have never mentioned them and only you have brought it up as an argument to mandatory vaccination when every normal person would accept there is bound to be exemptions. What I did mention is the religious nutters that attend over full churches five times on Sundays and refuse the vaccination because it is not written in the bible.

[Brian Peacock]

That is all fine Brian. Vaccinated people still display symptoms of Covid but seldom end up in hospital. Those who have have been vaccinated and up in an IC ward usually have other symptoms of other illnesses. The definition of a Covid infection is still not agreed upon. The data concerning the testing of Covid is very unreliable and will get worse as people here are being encouraged to self test at home. Too many are turning up in the test streets with just Winter snuffles or very mild Covid symptoms which could be easily diagnosed at home.
What is remarkable is that the major teaching hospitals are not reporting any problems as it is only the small regional hospitals that are always on the news with problems. I think when we get our new cabinet in January mandatory vaccination will be a priority. It is interesting the protestant churches have set up a lobby committee to monitor the situation. Also those churches are not cancelling late services so in fact giving the government the middle finger.

This is also what I'm talking about. You're lumping the unvaccinated together and by example casting them as anti-social, as individually or collectively morally flawed, and therefore ignorable. The burden of this kind of rhetoric falls heavily, and unfairly, on clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people.

Where did I do that? You are the one making presumptions as always. Of there will be exemptions as Jim as already mentioned.

You have done it consistently throughout the thread. I'm suggesting that we need to start being careful about what we say we mean to avoid sweeping clinically vulnerable, long term sick, and disabled people up in public expressions of anti anti-vax sentiment.

Yep here comes the vagueness. Making unjustifiable claims. "You have done this and this". Please Brian where have I swept all the vulnerable etc. into one pile? I have never mentioned them and only you have brought it up as an argument to mandatory vaccination when every normal person would accept there is bound to be exemptions. What I did mention is the religious nutters that attend over full churches five times on Sundays and refuse the vaccination because it is not written in the bible.

I'm not being vague, I'm expressing a general principle. People with chronic conditions who have been advised not to get the vaccine shouldn't be lumped in with anti-vaxxers nor swept up in anti anti-vax sentiments, nor should they be obliged to return to the office or be excluded from other aspects of public life because they don't have the requisite QR code. I'm suggesting that we need to start being mindful of how we talk about this so that clinically vulnerable, long-term sick, and disabled people don't become the objects of vilification while we're taking pot shots at religious extremists and the conspiracy-nut-brigade.

[Scot Dutchy]

Just where did I mention this group or where did I dump them with other anti-vaxxers. Of course for every law there are exemptions and I fully realise that but the number of people who fall into that group is small and need full protection.