The Coronavirus Thread

Post Reply
User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:02 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:29 pm
Who uses the WHO definitions?
As I said, the EU and the UK for a start. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:29 pm
As I asked: "What is your definition of a one sided accident?
Please show how this is relevant to my previous post where I was challenging those who have, for example, made arguments against Covid mitigation measures on the basis of a comparison to road death totals.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:02 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:29 pm
Who uses the WHO definitions?
As I said, the EU and the UK for a start. If you have information to the contrary I'd be interested in seeing it.
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:29 pm
As I asked: "What is your definition of a one sided accident?
Please show how this is relevant to my previous post where I was challenging those who have, for example, made arguments against Covid mitigation measures on the basis of a comparison to road death totals.
It is all about definitions. Who is bothered by the WHO and do you have evidence that anyone pays any attention to what it gurgles? It is all lip service. Just believe me. Governments say what they will.
Last week; no terraces open and maybe 13th May. NOW: 28th probably terraces open. Whats changed? Nothing.

The same the world over. People are fed up with control but governments have gleaned vast amount amount of data about controlling their societies. Handy for later.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 47191
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:48 pm

CNN: As of Saturday, more than 80% of people age 65 and over have received at least one dose of vaccine, and 65% have been fully vaccinated, according to CDC data.

Yet, Republicans evangelicals et al are refusing the vaccine. How did we get to 80%?
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:57 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 pm
People are fed up with control but governments have gleaned vast amount amount of data about controlling their societies. Handy for later.
Ok Galaxian.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73014
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:02 am

Speaking of He Who Should Not Be Named, he's been a bit scarce lately... :tea:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 8950
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by NineBerry » Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:11 am

Traffic on the route to Andromeda is a bit slow currently

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:57 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 pm
People are fed up with control but governments have gleaned vast amount amount of data about controlling their societies. Handy for later.
Ok Galaxian.
It's almost as if the science of viral epidemiology doesn't exist, that public health officials just sit around waiting for 'the man' to tell them what to think, that doctors are making up any old shit and sticking it on death certificate, and that nurses and care home staff haven't been rushed off their feet for the last year caring for the sick and trying to comfort their families. I'm just waiting for the "there's no proof that vaccination even works" to be added to the pile. :tea:
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:09 am

JimC wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:02 am
Speaking of He Who Should Not Be Named, he's been a bit scarce lately... :tea:
I blocked access to Mars, so now he is making his way toward Uranus.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59295
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:32 am

I sent a probe to Uranus. It's a dark and murky place.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Hermit » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:37 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:32 am
I sent a probe to Uranus. It's a dark and murky place.
Tony Abbott's suppository of wisdom by any chance?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:10 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:57 pm
Scot Dutchy wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 10:39 pm
People are fed up with control but governments have gleaned vast amount amount of data about controlling their societies. Handy for later.
Ok Galaxian.
It's almost as if the science of viral epidemiology doesn't exist, that public health officials just sit around waiting for 'the man' to tell them what to think, that doctors are making up any old shit and sticking it on death certificate, and that nurses and care home staff haven't been rushed off their feet for the last year caring for the sick and trying to comfort their families. I'm just waiting for the "there's no proof that vaccination even works" to be added to the pile. :tea:
Yes Brian. How often has the UK government altered the figures?
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:00 am

The thing is Scot that the govt doesn't have absolute and total control of the population or the flow of information. Yes, political operators are political and have great sway over the flow of information about their own policies and performance, but the systems in place for things like collecting mortality data, hospital admissions, tracking or tracing contagions through the population, treatment and care protocols etc predate the pandemic and remain essentially the same. Under the umbrella of the medical sciences academics, practitioners, and other health related professions continue to study, monitor and collect information about the causes, expression, extent and treatment of diseases with the aim of deepening understanding and through that developing and refining best practice, and they attend conferences and publish papers for peer review - often in direct opposition to governments' policies and PR. To listen to you one would think that all this has simply blown away on the wind and that every government are using 5G mind-control beams to turn everyone involved into unthinking automotons programmed to fulfill whatever wish floats across a minster's forebrain.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:17 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 8:10 am
Brian Peacock wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 1:06 am
...
It's almost as if the science of viral epidemiology doesn't exist, that public health officials just sit around waiting for 'the man' to tell them what to think, that doctors are making up any old shit and sticking it on death certificate, and that nurses and care home staff haven't been rushed off their feet for the last year caring for the sick and trying to comfort their families. I'm just waiting for the "there's no proof that vaccination even works" to be added to the pile. :tea:
Yes Brian. How often has the UK government altered the figures?
To address this question specifically, the move by the EU and the UK, along with many other countries, to define a Covid death as one which happens within 28 days of a positive test appears to be a political move to deliberately under-report the total counts. This has had the most significant impact on the so-called 'first wave' of infections when reliable Covid tests were few and far between. This was highlighted in a British Medical Journal paper published in September last year...
... Evidence of the UK’s higher overall death toll during the first wave of the pandemic relative to comparable countries is unequivocal. England had the highest excess all-cause mortality rate among 23 European countries in the first five months of 2020 compared with 2015-19, followed by Spain and Scotland, with mortality being spread throughout the country in contrast to the more localised patterns in Europe.(2) England also had the second (after Spain) highest peak of excess all-cause mortality and the slowest fall to normal levels—so the longest period of excess deaths. The contrasts with Norway, Finland, Denmark, Austria, and some eastern European countries, where no excess mortality was observed throughout 2020, are even sharper.

Recent changes to the definition of a covid-19 death in England (from all deaths after a positive test to deaths within 28 days) have reduced the UK’s official covid-19 death toll by 16%.(1,3) But the change doesn’t alter the UK’s poor ranking among European peers. Excess mortality rates based on death certification data2 are more reliable for national and international comparisons than the covid-19 “surveillance” data used for tracking the pandemic’s trajectory.(4) Comparisons of excess mortality circumvent differences in how covid-19 deaths are counted and also include deaths from the wider effects of the pandemic...

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3348
Yes, the UK government have changed the definition, but they haven't changed reality have they?

If you have doubts and/or concerns about the data then please challenge it on the basis of its analysis and methodologies like any seriously-minded professional interested in the facts-of-the-matter would. All this talk of governments having a kind of 'total system dominance' over every aspect of Covid-related information is, I'm afraid, indistinguishable from the ravings of our friend from Andromeda who has a holiday home on Venus.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Tero
Just saying
Posts: 47191
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:50 pm
About me: 15-32-25
Location: USA
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Tero » Mon Apr 19, 2021 6:24 pm

Projection (likely is the dark red over the green)
218C847A-0E9A-42F9-B286-B761D12497AF.png
gives flattening after Aug for US
https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-s ... &tab=trend
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: The Coronavirus Thread

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Apr 19, 2021 9:01 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:If you have doubts and/or concerns about the data then please challenge it on the basis of its analysis and methodologies like any seriously-minded professional interested in the facts-of-the-matter would. All this talk of governments having a kind of 'total system dominance' over every aspect of Covid-related information is, I'm afraid, indistinguishable from the ravings of our friend from Andromeda who has a holiday home on Venus.
That is exactly what I have done. Every government has "total system dominance". Or maybe you just dont see it?
Your ravings are indistinguishable from the kool-aid that is spewed out by every government. If you are are unable to appreciate that collecting Covid data is political then I am sorry. You claim that the WHO definitions are used world wide yet on the same breath you state the UK altered the definition of A Covid death which still has not been totally defined or a Covid case. Once again you have chosen for the kool-aid when there are countless other reports and data contradicting it. So why do we keep this pointless discussion going?

Our lovely decommissioned Kabinet has now declared that the opening of terraces and public spaces along with the ending of the curfew will happen on the 28th April. Sunday the said it would not happen until at least the 15th of May.

What's changed? Nothing. Who is dominating the system?
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Tero and 21 guests