The Trump Impeachment

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Sean Hayden
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:10 pm

Tero wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:42 am
Dershowitz the "scholar":
Trump legal team member Alan Dershowitz also asserted that proof of a crime is required to impeach a president, though during the 1998 impeachment of President Clinton he asserted, "It certainly doesn’t have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty. You don’t need a technical crime," adding, "We look at their acts of state. We look at how they conduct the foreign policy. We look at whether they try to subvert the Constitution." After video of his statements surfaced as the Trump trial began, Dershowitz retracted his earlier position.[65][66]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme ... nald_Trump
:lol: --oops

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tyrannical » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:20 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:10 pm
Tero wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:42 am
Dershowitz the "scholar":
Trump legal team member Alan Dershowitz also asserted that proof of a crime is required to impeach a president, though during the 1998 impeachment of President Clinton he asserted, "It certainly doesn’t have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty. You don’t need a technical crime," adding, "We look at their acts of state. We look at how they conduct the foreign policy. We look at whether they try to subvert the Constitution." After video of his statements surfaced as the Trump trial began, Dershowitz retracted his earlier position.[65][66]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme ... nald_Trump
:lol: --oops
And he explained that 22 years ago he didn't fully research the topic because Clinton was charged with an actual crime. Nobody doubted that Clinton was innocent, they had the DNA proof.
A rational skeptic should be able to discuss and debate anything, no matter how much they may personally disagree with that point of view. Discussing a subject is not agreeing with it, but understanding it.

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:24 pm

There is such a tiny amount of info on Hunter Biden and Burisma, that it has taken weeks of poking around just to find this:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019 ... s-campaign
When Archer told Hunter that the board needed advice on how to improve the company’s corporate governance, Hunter recommended the law firm Boies Schiller Flexner, where he was “of counsel.” The firm brought in the investigative agency Nardello & Co. to assess Burisma’s history of corruption. Hunter joined Archer on the Burisma board in April, 2014. Three months later, in a draft report to Boies Schiller, Nardello said that it was “unable to identify any information to date regarding any current government investigation into Zlochevsky or Burisma,” but cited unnamed sources saying that Zlochevsky could be “vulnerable to investigation for financial crimes” and for “perceived abuse of power.”

Vice-President Biden was playing a central role in overseeing U.S. policy in Ukraine, and took the lead in calling on Kiev to fight rampant corruption. On May 13, 2014, after Hunter’s role on the Burisma board was reported in the news, Jen Psaki, a State Department spokesperson, said that the State Department was not concerned about perceived conflicts of interest, because Hunter was a “private citizen.” Hunter told Burisma’s management and other board members that he would not be involved in any matters that were connected to the U.S. government or to his father. Kwaśniewski told me, “We never discussed how the Vice-President can help us. Frankly speaking, we didn’t need such help.”

Several former officials in the Obama Administration and at the State Department insisted that Hunter’s role at Burisma had no effect on his father’s policies in Ukraine, but said that, nevertheless, Hunter should not have taken the board seat. As the former senior White House aide put it, there was a perception that “Hunter was on the loose, potentially undermining his father’s message.” The same aide said that Hunter should have recognized that at least some of his foreign business partners were motivated to work with him because they wanted “to be able to say that they are affiliated with Biden.” A former business associate said, “The appearance of a conflict of interest is good enough, at this level of politics, to keep you from doing things like that.”

In December, 2015, as Joe Biden prepared to return to Ukraine, his aides braced for renewed scrutiny of Hunter’s relationship with Burisma. Amos Hochstein, the Obama Administration’s special envoy for energy policy, raised the matter with Biden, but did not go so far as to recommend that Hunter leave the board. As Hunter recalled, his father discussed Burisma with him just once: “Dad said, ‘I hope you know what you are doing,’ and I said, ‘I do.’ ”

Hunter said that he limited his social interactions with Biden’s White House colleagues, because he didn’t want to be in a situation “where I’m playing golf with the President or one of his aides and look at my phone and see another headline that reads ‘president makes joke about biden.’ ” Kathleen felt differently about the White House. Their daughter Maisy was in the same class at Sidwell Friends as Sasha, the Obamas’ younger daughter. The two girls became close, and Kathleen and Michelle Obama became friends, attending SoulCycle and Solidcore exercise classes together almost every day. Some evenings, they went out to dinner or had drinks at the White House. Kathleen went on vacations with Michelle, mutual friends, and their daughters.

Hunter saw himself as a provider for the Biden family; he even helped to pay off Beau’s law-school debts. But he often wished that, like his father and his brother, he could contribute more to society. Through his business, he got to know an Australian-American former military-intelligence officer named Greg Keeley, who regaled him with stories about his career in the Royal Australian Navy. After moving to the United States, at forty, Keeley had obtained an age waiver to join the U.S. Navy as a reservist. While on reserve duty at a U.S. military base in southern Afghanistan on September 11, 2011, he and members of his unit watched Vice-President Biden deliver a speech at the Pentagon about the attacks of 9/11. After the speech, Keeley sent an e-mail to Hunter to tell him that members of his unit thought the Vice-President’s message was “spot on.” Hunter passed the note on to his father, who wrote Keeley an e-mail. “Keep your heads down,” it said. “You are the finest group of warriors in all of history.”

Keeley helped convince Hunter that it wasn’t too late for him to join the Navy Reserves. He told me, “My message to him was: If you feel the call to serve, which I encouraged, it doesn’t really matter what your rank is and what’s on your shoulder board—it is that you’re serving your country. Hunter took that message to heart and acted upon it.” With a letter of recommendation from Keeley, Hunter applied for an age waiver, which the Navy granted. The service has a zero-tolerance drug-and-alcohol-abuse policy, and states that all recruits will be asked “questions about prior drug and alcohol use.” Hunter disclosed that he had “used drugs in the past,” but said that he was now sober, and the Navy granted him a second waiver.
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:29 pm

From the Wiki article on Burisma, chat on the content under "talk" tab
In June 2009, Hunter Biden, Christopher Heinz—Senator John Kerry’s stepson—and Devon Archer co-founded Rosemont Seneca Partners. In 2012, Archer and Biden talked to Jonathan Li, who ran a Chinese private-equity fund, Bohai Capital, about becoming partners in a new company that would invest Chinese capital in companies outside China. In 2013, Archer, Biden and Li created the fund, which they named BHR Partners. — The New Yorker.
According to The New York Times:
Hunter Biden’s work in Ukraine appears to have been well compensated. Burisma paid $3.4 million to a company called Rosemont Seneca Bohai LLC from mid-April 2014, when Hunter Biden and Mr. Archer joined the board, to late 2015, according to the financial data provided by the Ukrainian deputy prosecutor. The payments continued after that, according to people familiar with the arrangement. Rosemont Seneca Bohai was controlled by Mr. Archer, who left Burisma’s board after he was charged in connection with a scheme to defraud pension funds and an Indian tribe of tens of millions of dollars. Bank records submitted in that case — which resulted in a conviction for Mr. Archer that was overturned in November — show that Rosemont Seneca Bohai made regular payments to Mr. Biden that totaled as much as $50,000 in some months.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Burisma_Holdings

those references do not give any "follow the money" trail to Hunter, so the article author will not cite them. The 3.4 million may be the amount that comes from 50, 000 a month, which is 0.6 million a year for 5-6 years.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:01 pm

The impeachment article is slow to develop, but this one is nearly done
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump%E2% ... ne_scandal
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:04 pm

If you gave money to the Trump campaign, you got it paid back by (Russian?) sources:

Parnas' company, which offered products and services to guard against investment fraud, had no sign of any customers at the time of the contributions. However, it later received a $1.5 million investment from Magnolia Ventures, a New York City-based venture capital fund.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4531125002
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:27 pm

GOP senators pressuring any hold outs that "it will go on for days, weeks" and Trump will get away anyway:

There were new signs Thursday of a behind-the-scenes GOP effort to thwart Schiff's gambit. CNN reported that GOP senators are warning that a subpoena fight could prompt an "indefinite" delay in the trial, which few on the Republican side of the aisle have any desire to accept.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:38 pm

Elsewhere:

Trump could shoot someone in the Senate and the Republicans would vote to acquit 53-47. Unless it was a Republican, then it would be 52-47.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:04 pm

:hehe:
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Joe » Fri Jan 24, 2020 10:35 pm

Recording of Trump calling for Yovanovitch’s ouster appears to corroborate Parnas’s account
President Trump is allegedly heard on an audio recording demanding the firing of then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch during a private dinner with top donors in April 2018, according to an audio file obtained by ABC News.

“Get rid of her! Get her out tomorrow. I don’t care. Get her out tomorrow. Take her out. Okay? Do it,” Trump is heard saying, according to ABC News, which said it reviewed the tape.

The recording, which The Washington Post has not independently verified, corroborates an account of the evening by Lev Parnas, a former associate of Trump’s personal attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani. In a recent interview, Parnas said he told Trump that evening that Yovanovitch was working against him.

“I do remember me telling the president the ambassador was bad-mouthing him and saying he was going to get impeached, something to that effect,” Parnas told MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow last week.

In the interview, he apologized to Yovanovitch, saying he now believes he was wrong about her.

The Post first reported that Parnas and his business partner Igor Fruman bad-mouthed Yovanovitch to Trump at the dinner and that the president reacted strongly, saying she should be fired. The recording of the conversation was made by Fruman, ABC reported.
Fake news of course. Trump doesn't know those guys! :{D
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:48 pm

Tyrannical wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:20 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:10 pm
Tero wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:42 am
Dershowitz the "scholar":
Trump legal team member Alan Dershowitz also asserted that proof of a crime is required to impeach a president, though during the 1998 impeachment of President Clinton he asserted, "It certainly doesn’t have to be a crime if you have somebody who completely corrupts the office of president and who abuses trust and who poses great danger to our liberty. You don’t need a technical crime," adding, "We look at their acts of state. We look at how they conduct the foreign policy. We look at whether they try to subvert the Constitution." After video of his statements surfaced as the Trump trial began, Dershowitz retracted his earlier position.[65][66]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachme ... nald_Trump
:lol: --oops
And he explained that 22 years ago he didn't fully research the topic because Clinton was charged with an actual crime. Nobody doubted that Clinton was innocent, they had the DNA proof.
That was not the crime. It was perjury. Perjury is routine in DC. And Trump does that weekly.
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Seabass » Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:59 am

"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Sat Jan 25, 2020 2:40 am

https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
http://esabirdsne.blogspot.com/
Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Joe » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:15 am

I love it when friends tape friends. :funny:
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Re: The Trump Impeachment

Post by Tero » Sat Jan 25, 2020 3:56 am

More of the tape on ABC I think.
https://esapolitics.blogspot.com
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Said Peter...what you're requesting just isn't my bag
Said Daemon, who's sorry too, but y'see we didn't have no choice
And our hands they are many and we'd be of one voice
We've come all the way from Wigan to get up and state
Our case for survival before it's too late

Turn stone to bread, said Daemon Duncetan
Turn stone to bread right away...

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