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Brian Peacock
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by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:33 am
JimC wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:07 am
And you are missing the point about persuading people, instead of alienating them...
The persuading approach has been tried over the last 40 year or so, and it has been more than matched by those with the power and the resources to make sure that opposing viewpoint and condemnation of the persuaders dominates the media.
Through their non-violent demonstrations XR are raising awareness among the entire population even if they are alienating a certain proportion of commuters. It's easy for a media outlet to find someone who's annoyed about not being able to get to work or drop the kids off at school and then present those voice to generate #OUTRAGE which condemns the group as a whole along with the broader point. It's interesting that as XR increasingly contributes to the national debate, adding a voice that articulates growing public concerns about environmental issues, that we're being encouraged by the usual media outlets to focus our #OUTRAGE in sympathy with a small number of people who are annoyed by these protests rather than focus our attention on the growing numbers of ordinary people who agree that governments need to start walking the talk on the climate crisis.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Animavore
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by Animavore » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:26 am
It's more 30 years than 40, but yeah. A whole generation have lived their lives under governments who've done precisely nothing. In 30 years we've released more CO2 than we have in the period from the industrial revolution, which means we caused more damage knowing full well the consequences than we have in ignorance.
If the powers that be listened in '88 we could've had a decade or two of little steps under our belt and it wouldn't have come to this. They didn't listen and without encouragement these nihilists seem to have no intention of listening. The time for being nice passed over a decade ago.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.
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by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:22 pm
NYT, 1979, Worldwide Study Is Proposed to Study Climate and Its Impact :
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/pro ... ate-change
NYT, 1969: A Warning on Global Warming :
https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2 ... l-warming/
Guardian, On its 100th birthday in 1959, Edward Teller warned the oil industry about global warming :
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... al-warming
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Animavore
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by Animavore » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Sure. But is was in '88 that it came into the public consciousness after James Hansen.
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Scot Dutchy
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by Scot Dutchy » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:57 pm
You had back in the 60's the Club of Rome.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".
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by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:17 pm
Animavore wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Sure. But is was in '88 that it came into the public consciousness after James Hansen.
Perhaps. But the point is that governments and the fossil fuel sector have had the evidence for at least 40 years.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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pErvinalia
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by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:36 pm
If only we had free markets this wouldn't happen. Capitalism, if unfettered, would have sorted it out by now.
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Sean Hayden
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by Sean Hayden » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:45 pm
Our lives have been made possible by these same evil corporations. It's a bit of a motherfucker really.
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by Sean Hayden » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:50 pm
"Your life"
paid for by Exxon Mobile
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by Hermit » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:04 pm
Animavore wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:50 pm
Sure. But is was in '88 that it came into the public consciousness after James Hansen.
Public consciousness =/= teh internet
Anyhow, how would you know either way? You were barely out of your diapers at that time.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 3:20 pm
pErvinalia wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:36 pm
If only we had free markets this wouldn't happen. Capitalism, if unfettered, would have sorted it out by now.
Can you feel the invisible hand of the market on your virtuous circle?
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Seabass
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by Seabass » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:10 pm
Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:45 pm
Our lives have been made possible by these same evil corporations. It's a bit of a motherfucker really.
Not really. Our lives have been made possible by the science. The fossil companies have stood in the way newer science enabling us to maintain the same standard of living with a much smaller footprint.
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by Sean Hayden » Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:15 pm
Not really. It's one thing to promise this lifestyle, and another to produce it.
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by Brian Peacock » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:37 pm
Cheap energy is the prime economic driver of our age. Unfortunately that energy has been very dirty, and the economic benefits have been predominantly staved off by an increasingly tiny coterie of powerful entities who don't even have their own best interests at heart.
(And I say this as someone who's wearing plastic shoes)
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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by JimC » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:38 pm
Seabass wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:10 pm
Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:45 pm
Our lives have been made possible by these same evil corporations. It's a bit of a motherfucker really.
Not really. Our lives have been made possible by the science. The fossil companies have stood in the way newer science enabling us to maintain the same standard of living with a much smaller footprint.
Sean Hayden wrote: ↑Fri Aug 09, 2019 5:15 pm
Not really. It's one thing to promise this lifestyle, and another to produce it.
Engineers FTW!
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