Extinction Rebellion

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Tero
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Tero » Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:21 pm

"Somebody is getting something I don't."
Is also the basis of all politics. The libertarians want to wean us off the tit of USA and "work for a living." But it just shuffles one type of consuming to another. Most of us are doing "nothing." a good 3/4 of the pie chart

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Jul 05, 2019 2:22 pm

Alan B wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:20 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:56 am
Population isn't in itself a problem. The real problem is western levels of consumption. Until we address that we will only ever be tinkering.
It isn't 'Western' levels of consumption per se. It's human nature to strive for something that is perceived to be 'better'. Which is why we have refugees/immigrants leaving their 'shithole' countries to invade the 'Western' way of life countries in order to 'better' themselves.

Now, if we were to aid these 'shithole' countries so that their subjects wouldn't want to leave...
Don't believe the hype. The problem isn't everybody else wanting to be like us in the West as if i) the environment is something that respects our consumer choices or prefers our activity to that of other, poorer, browner people, and ii) as if everything could just carry on regardless if we somehow found a way to limit the global population and the economy to just that good bit called 'Western Civilisation'. It is absolutely our levels of consumption that are driving the global economy and having significantly more environmental impact per capita than the so-called third- and second-world combined. Around 80% of the waste Carbon Dioxide released into the atmosphere each year is produced by 100 companies in less than 20 countries, and so it's hardly surprising that those with an eye to profits-now-consequences-later have an interest in telling us that it's not our fault and we can continue consuming our way to a brighter future by just kind of consuming different or better stuff.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:55 am

It was bound to happen I suppose. Just listened to an expert in counter-terrorism on the the radio saying that Extinction Rebellion are an extreme, violent, anarchist group hell bent on 'destroying our way of life', and top of the list of justification is that the London protests earlier this year cost the country £28million. I kid you not.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:13 am

Six Extinction Rebellion activists arrested in London

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Six people have been arrested after chaining themselves to the entrance of a concrete factory during a second day of Extinction Rebellion’s “summer uprising”.

The civil disobedience movement is staging five days of non-violent disruption in five cities around the UK to urge the government to take immediate action to address the climate emergency.

In east London about 50 people blocked the gates at London Concrete in Bow to prevent workers or vehicles from entering the site as protests continued in Leeds, Bristol, Cardiff and Glasgow.

The Metropolitan police said six people – three men and three women, aged between 30 and 67 – had been arrested on suspicion of aggravated trespass and obstruction of a highway.

Commander Jane Connors said the construction industry should expect more disruption in the days ahead.

“We absolutely recognise the right for people to protest,” she said. “However, we will continue to take action against those who choose to break the law, to ensure disruption to Londoners is kept to a minimum.

“We are aware that protesters are expected to target the construction industry this week. We are engaging with business across the capital and would urge anyone who becomes aware of protests taking place on their premises to contact police at the earliest opportunity.”

The London protests finished on Tuesday afternoon when the activists headed back to their temporary camp near Waterloo station...

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... rete-plant
"Summer uprising" is an interesting turn of phrase eh? Made more so now by the counter-argument that 'they' are basically a terrorist group.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:26 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 6:46 pm
OK. For the sake of argument, let's say that there is a general consensus that Gore is right and so we need to reduce the global population. How do we achieve it and where do we start?
The Black Death is thought to have originated in the dry plains of Central Asia, where it travelled along the Silk Road, reaching Crimea by 1343. From there, it was most likely carried by fleas living on the black rats that traveled on all merchant ships, spreading throughout the Mediterranean Basin and Europe.

The Black Death is estimated to have killed 30% to 60% of Europe's population. In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[8] It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level.
Release Yersinia pestis, I say.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:35 am

That's a bit grim. How about just, you know, improving the conditions of people so that having lots of kids isn't the only way to survive?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:38 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 6:55 am
It was bound to happen I suppose. Just listened to an expert in counter-terrorism on the the radio saying that Extinction Rebellion are an extreme, violent, anarchist group hell bent on 'destroying our way of life', and top of the list of justification is that the London protests earlier this year cost the country £28million. I kid you not.
What shits me about these types of people (and the actual security forces) is that they only see things through the one lens - national security. They refuse to balance their national security views with the rights and concepts that are part of our liberal democracies. They are a hammer, and everything looks to them a nail.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:57 am

Indeed. I would also suggest that turning the planet into New Venus is a security issue as well.

Terrorism is the use of violence for political ends - but one might argue, with some justification, that considering the evidence (yes, Galaxian, evidence) a political and economic instinct for 'business as usual' backed by the state and enforced by the police and security services could also be seen as employing the use of violence for political ends.

The fact remains that while Extinction Rebellion aim to be disruptive in their protests, and willingly cause some damage to property etc, they have an explicitly non-violent covenant which everyone signs up to. I don't doubt that some people who get involved will not hold to that, and perhaps some people might even join the group with the intention of engaging in physical violence, but Extinction Rebellion deliberately challenging governments to take action because they recognise that some form of social and political transition needs to place and the only just and fair means of achieving that kind of significant change is democratically not by bloody revolution.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:14 am

Yeah, any illegal disruption they cause is a matter for the police and regular law. Not national security bollocks.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:20 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 7:35 am
That's a bit grim. How about just, you know, improving the conditions of people so that having lots of kids isn't the only way to survive?
It's efficient, man. Much of the population reduction took place in just four years (1347-1351). Another advantage is that, unlike in the scenario of limiting the number of new wouldbe Barbies and Kens, whos lifetime achievements will be to post ducklipped selfies on Facebook and pics of the MacDonalds hamburger they had for lunch on Instagram, the survivors won't be lumbered with the burden of keeping a surfeit of demented geriatrics alive.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:29 am

But, just to entertain the idea for a moment, and putting aside your tongue-in-cheek moralising that people deserve the plague because captialism and social media, a Black Death scenario would disproportionally effect people in countries with poor and inefficient health services. So we're still kind of on the 'brown people far away have to shoulder the burden of securing our lifestyle' bandwagon.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:33 am

Yeah we need a virus that targets rich conservatives. Wipe them out and redistribute their money and the place would be a lot better.
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:53 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:29 am
...a Black Death scenario would disproportionally effect people in countries with poor and inefficient health services.
That too has an upside. We members of affluent societies could no longer rely on products like our clothing and digital gadgets being manufactured by people who are paid 60 cents an hour. Foxconn, just one of many major contractors to Apple Corp. and other brands currently employs over 800,000 such workers. If a sudden 30 to 60% reduction in the global population affects countries with poor and inefficient health services disproportionally, it would destroy the business model of all companies who benefit from such exploitation, and we will be forced to pay a fairer rate to the workers who survive. What's not to like?
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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Hermit » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:04 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:33 am
Yeah we need a virus that targets rich conservatives. Wipe them out and redistribute their money and the place would be a lot better.
Actually, just conservatives will do. They are much more likely to support the preservation of the status quo by voting for Trump, ScoMo, et al. Since the older strata of society are more likely to be of a conservative mindset, a pandemic that focuses on people who are physically at the end of their tether already can only be a good thing.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Extinction Rebellion

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 17, 2019 10:48 am

Hermit wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:53 am
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 8:29 am
...a Black Death scenario would disproportionally effect people in countries with poor and inefficient health services.
That too has an upside. We members of affluent societies could no longer rely on products like our clothing and digital gadgets being manufactured by people who are paid 60 cents an hour. Foxconn, just one of many major contractors to Apple Corp. and other brands currently employs over 800,000 such workers. If a sudden 30 to 60% reduction in the global population affects countries with poor and inefficient health services disproportionally, it would destroy the business model of all companies who benefit from such exploitation, and we will be forced to pay a fairer rate to the workers who survive. What's not to like?
Yeah, I can see how being dead definitely stops you being exploited.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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