Media Bias

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Brian Peacock
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:13 pm

My ancestors where exiled Huguenots, apparently. There's Scots, Irish and Bengali heritage in my line too, and my mother was a Dalek and my Father a Timelord. I embody and express none of that in my identity, and am not the lesser for it.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:36 pm

I'm half German, and never felt even slightly German.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:37 pm

Although, that might be because I never knew my German mother, so didn't grow up with any of those traditions.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Woodbutcher » Tue Jul 12, 2022 11:51 pm

According to my paternal DNA analysis, I belong to the haplogroup "N". I share that with a lot of people in SE Asia. My ancestors were Nentsis. They migrated to the Northern Siberia 15-20000 years ago from Turkey region through Pamir-Knot area.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:05 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:29 pm
I love history. We are all better for learning it.

But we're closer, with few exceptions, to everyone today than even our own recent history, nevermind hundreds of years ago.

I could champion my Irishness, many do. Or my Italian, my grandmother being the first born in the US. Many in my family do both. But they're roll-playing, and yes, they're weirdos.
Understanding how things got the way they are is useful for determining how we proceed in the present and making decisions that produce salutary results. Those who don't desire those results will attempt to obscure the facts about how things got the way they are. Denigrating both-sidesism is a skewed depiction of these conflicting approaches.

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Re: Media Bias

Post by JimC » Wed Jul 13, 2022 6:09 am

Going back to the Jefferson thing, it seems that the right would prefer that slavery, and his role in it, were simply never brought up...
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Jul 13, 2022 7:51 am

We get a similar conflict over Churchill here. Sure he played a vital political role in WWII, but he was also an intolerant asshole, an alcoholic, horrendously sexist, and a massive fucking racist. The Right are only comfortable talking about the first thing - the mythos, if you like - and get very angry if one takes a more comprehensive view of the man and the contexts he operated in.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Svartalf » Wed Jul 13, 2022 10:01 am

I tend to be tolerant fos sexists and racists, at least those who lived before WWII, after all , my two favorite writers were massive sexists and racists, and that seldom bothers me.
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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:16 am

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 5:05 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 4:29 pm
I love history. We are all better for learning it.

But we're closer, with few exceptions, to everyone today than even our own recent history, nevermind hundreds of years ago.

I could champion my Irishness, many do. Or my Italian, my grandmother being the first born in the US. Many in my family do both. But they're roll-playing, and yes, they're weirdos.
Understanding how things got the way they are is useful for determining how we proceed in the present and making decisions that produce salutary results. Those who don't desire those results will attempt to obscure the facts about how things got the way they are. Denigrating both-sidesism is a skewed depiction of these conflicting approaches.
I'm among friends. I made a comment about how people connect --inappropriately in my opinion-- to history often missing more meaningful present day connections. That's a problem for all people.

If some idiot thinks what I said makes Republican and Democrat politics equal that's his problem.

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Re: Media Bias

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:58 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Tue Jul 12, 2022 9:54 am
I'll never understand these weirdos on either side who feel such profound connectedness to history.

--stop role-playing your lives away!
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Jul 13, 2022 11:16 am
I'm among friends. I made a comment about how people connect --inappropriately in my opinion-- to history often missing more meaningful present day connections. That's a problem for all people.

If some idiot thinks what I said makes Republican and Democrat politics equal that's his problem.
History has informed the present. Many people whose lives are blighted by the legacy of historical events and processes feel a profound connectedness to history, especially when some aspects of history continue into the present. They encounter that legacy and continuity of oppression every day, sometimes in painful ways. Sadly, no role-playing is required to feel that a profound connection exists. Others whose lives are not so affected might blithely dismiss this.

My comment was not about Democrats and Republicans, which should have been clear from its context. But I will spell it out: I was referring to those who want to acknowledge historical facts as opposed to those who would prefer to suppress them in favor of a glorious white-washed myth.

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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:05 am

So it's oppression that drives a sense of profound connectedness to the past, and only the oppressed have legitimacy in this regard?

--//--

We are closer to everyone today than even our most recent history, nevermind a society from hundreds of years ago. I teach my neighbors kids, mine may report to their dad one day --probation officer :hehe:-- their mom will take a blood sample from me. We will shop, eat and play together. We will desire similar things being driven by the ethos of our time. We could have a real sense of connectedness with each other, we ought to, it's there for the taking.

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Re: Media Bias

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:08 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:05 am
So it's oppression that drives a sense of profound connectedness to the past, and only the oppressed have legitimacy in this regard?
Yeah, you ripped up that strawman in a single sentence. Well done.

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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:14 pm

Really? I had a bit of trouble making sense of it myself. I think I wanted to point out that a focus on oppression as the cause for connection was probably unrealistic and read more like a rationalization than anything else.

To me this is an area for continued discussion. Anyone claiming a clear understanding is probably full of shit. :cheers:

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Re: Media Bias

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:59 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Fri Jul 15, 2022 2:14 pm
Really? I had a bit of trouble making sense of it myself. I think I wanted to point out that a focus on oppression as the cause for connection was probably unrealistic and read more like a rationalization than anything else.

To me this is an area for continued discussion. Anyone claiming a clear understanding is probably full of shit. :cheers:
OK, please expand on this idea of 'role-playing.' As it is, I'm not buying what you're selling, and clearly you find my understanding of the issue unsatisfactory as well. :)

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Re: Media Bias

Post by Sean Hayden » Fri Jul 15, 2022 10:31 pm

Why, so you can point and laugh as I tie myself in knots? :biggrin:

Fine. I think your reasoning is good and you make a compelling case for why some people will connect so closely with history. It just fails to acknowledge any potential problems. So it comes across as failing to identify actual causes ..rankles. You said yourself that history informs the present. It's not a big jump then to informing your view of the present, and it's not difficult to imagine how looking at the world through the eyes of history can be problematic. The main concern I brought up was a potential to disrupt meaningful connections today.

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