BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

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Brian Peacock
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:42 am

Rum wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:14 pm
No it wasn’t. Simple.
Indeed. What I see with Scot and many ardent Remainers is the contamination of the public's reasons for voting Brexit with the kind of political libertarian economic agenda that inspires Farage, the ERG, and the Tory right at large. Of course the libertarians in politics want Brexit to increase their fortunes and influence, but they didn't promote Leaving on that basis - indeed, they were very careful not say, "Vote Brexit to make me richer!" - and so other, more general concerns were attached to the Leave campaign: most notably the idea that the failures of Capitalism for great swathes of the population had a single straightforward cause and a single straightforward solution.

Now I think there are really good reasons to highlight and resist that libertarian economic agenda but even if Brexit was scrapped tomorrow the failure of Capitalism for great swathes of the population, and which led to many people voting to Leave the EU, will still be there - and not just in the UK. What the ERG et al have sold the population is the idea that the failure of Capitalism can be addressed and ameliorated entirely by MORE and HARDER Capitalism, when all it can possibly achieve is MORE and HARDER failure. What we have to try and avoid is blaming Leave voters for the failure of Capitalism when that MORE and HARDER failure arrives post-Brexit, which it surely will.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:21 pm

Amazing how simplicity fools so many. Make up a story about immigrants and sovereignty as a smoke screen to cover the shenanigans of tax evasion and sell it it to the misinformed. That is all Brexit is all about.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:06 pm

You missed the point.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:31 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:06 pm
You missed the point.
He misses it deliberately to return to his over simplified easy to digest home grown truth - as ever.

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:55 pm

It is not simplified that is the point; it is that simple. Take a look at the membership of the ERG.
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by NineBerry » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:51 pm

What happened in the European Parliament today


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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:00 pm

:hehe:
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:57 pm

Labour say they'd campaign to remain in the event of a 2nd referendum.
Corbyn says Labour would back remain in Brexit referendum

Jeremy Corbyn has sought to draw a line under Labour’s Brexit travails by announcing a “settled” policy of backing remain in any referendum called on a Conservative deal.

The Labour leader has been under intense pressure to shift to an overtly anti-Brexit stance, but has insisted on consulting the party’s stakeholders in recent weeks, including the trade unions.

In a statement emailed to party members on Tuesday he made no reference to what stance Labour would take in the event of a general election in the near future, or whether Labour could enter such a contest saying it would still go ahead with leaving the European Union....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... referendum

I think the strategy here comes on an acceptance that there's not actually going to be a 2nd referendum before we exit the EU. BoJo will stall and fudge, and nudge us into the 31 Oct exit one way or another. Labour then are positioning themselves against the economic fallout rather than against Brexit per se.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:29 pm

It’s fucking politicians manoeuvring and playing games like this that has got us into state of affairs. Bastards.

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:45 pm

There's nothing wrong in having a strategy - every party has to respond to what every other party is doing. And it's not necessarily the same as manipulating the electorate into thinking one thing and then doing something completely against that when you get into power - "No top down reorganisation of the NHS", "No increase in tuition fees" etc.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Rum » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:10 pm

Well of course there isn’t. But this is different. Corbyn is well known for his opposition to the EU on ideological grounds for example but he doesn’t have enough support to make that policy. Instead they dream up opportunistic policies designed to put the cat amongst the pigeons in the right circumstances irrespective of the interests of the country. They want power and their craving for it is almost embarrassing.

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:18 pm

Also, in spite of Corbyn's personal views about the EU project the overwhelming majority of the party membership, the biggest political party in Europe, are pro-Remain. Seems to me he's damnable if he's for or against - if he's for Remain then he's bowing to pressure or putting his ideals aside, and if he's against then he's dogmatically recalcitrant and not listening to the membership. This is exacerbated by the general view that the leader of a political party has to be the chief ideas generator and ultimate decider of things - which doesn't really reflect the structure of the Labour party after Blair/Brown.
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There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:44 pm

Another lovely claim Brian. Political parties are different from country to country. Numbers do not matter.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:05 pm

If you'd like to talk about this and think that I suggested all political parties are the same I'd ask you to read my post again, and then perhaps explain exactly which claim you're taking issue with.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: BREXIT! BREXIT! BREXIT!

Post by JimC » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:17 pm

So, is it true that a no-deal Brexit is looking increasingly to be the most likely outcome?

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