Huddersfield rape gang get a total of 220 years

[Rum]

People may remember this in connection with some of our right wingers defending Tommy Robinson, who almost fucked up the proceedings through his contempt of court actions.

They have, at any rate received their comeuppance.

Full marks to the Beeb for not making an issue of the religion of most of the gang members.

The story:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-45918845

Slightly less measured, but restrained from the Metro:

https://metro.co.uk/2018/10/19/huddersf ... d-8050917/

[Rum]

Apologies for the typo in the OP title. Too late to edit.

...just waiting for Cunt to come along and tell us how badly all this was handled and how Muslimics are actually taking over.

[Jason]

Reports of a child-rape gang operating in the UK many of whom appear to be from Islamic Pakistan? Quelle surprise.

Nothing to do with the culture they come from, I'm sure.

[Rum]

It may well have a bearing on it, however, they all committed offenses, which are also committed by many other people of different religions - or none.

The reporting of the episode as a horrible crime rather than an aspect of the religion of the men is the right thing to do.

If there are cultural issues - and there probably are - then these can be addressed within the relevant communities.

[Cunt]

Apologies for the typo in the OP title. Too late to edit.

...just waiting for Cunt to come along and tell us how badly all this was handled and how Muslimics are actually taking over.

No need to blame muslims for this - the brits are to blame.

Same as the catholics are to blame for the child-rape gangs who dress as priests.

It's 'us' to blame, not 'them'. If Rum had been a member of any of these gangs, it would not have gone this way. I would guess that he would be dead, or they would have chosen different activities.

To me, the problem is the isolation of different cultures. In Canada we have a 'Temporary Foreign Worker' program. This is abused often by folks who like having browner, more vulnerable employees. They can have their labour rights abused, then be fired (which means deported) if they complain.

The antidote, according to a lefty labour group, is pretty fucking awesome.

Go make friends with the new people. Share Canadian culture, make them a part of our community, then those abuses will not be possible.

So I don't disagree with you as much as you might think, Rum. I do think Islam is fucking gross. I do think the 'oppressed' include white Brits like Tommy Robinson paints himself, but the real oppressed group IS muslims. The real oppressors are also muslims.

So Rum, do you attend a mosque? (I don't, wouldn't feel safe in that community since I would draw Mohommad, and I think everyone knows it)

Are there other ways to reach out to the most oppressed? (to me, 'most oppressed' in this context would be young people and women who are not allowed much social contact outside their church group)

[Rum]

I actually agree with you about the isolation issue. In some of our larger cities, there are effectively ethnic ghettos, where people from the Indian Subcontinent and to some extent(if increasingly less so) Afro Carribean people have gathered and formed quite isolated communities. They are actually great to visit. One on the edge of Birmingham feels like stepping into a market in India.

This 'multi-cultural' approach on the surface is about letting people get on with their lives as they please, but we do, in part as a result, have groups of people whose identity isn't any longer from their country of origin (many of this gang were born in Britain) and isn't derived from what one might call a typically /traditionally British background. Isolated as they are it isn't that hard to see how values might get skewed.

I'm not sure the notion of oppression is helpful in this context. Islam is bad, as are pretty much all religions. Quite a few Muslims here have become secular and shed their religion, you might be surprised to know Long may that continue.

[Cunt]

I actually agree with you about the isolation issue.

Thanks, but I feel compelled to say, it isn't my idea. The labour group reminded me of it, but Mom told me the same general principles.

We shouldn't be living with strangers.

I'm not sure the notion of oppression is helpful in this context. Islam is bad, as are pretty much all religions. Quite a few Muslims here have become secular and shed their religion, you might be surprised to know Long may that continue.

I was just highlighting that it isn't the whiteys who are oppressed the worst. It is the young person who might hide a spoon in their underpants.

A british citizen, but most likely a brown one, who is being oppressed by their parents religion. Or is it their customs?

If we condemn child genital mutilation, and arranged child marriage, is it criticism of Islam? Culture? Or is it racist?

I don't like any of the practices, but love people who have participated in each. Life is seldom simple.

[pErvinalia]

It is the young person who might hide a spoon in their underpants.

This again?

[JimC]

Rum wrote:

...Full marks to the Beeb for not making an issue of the religion of most of the gang members...

I would not mind some careful media commentary which made some issue of it, especially if (as I thought was the case) the accused had made mention of something like "non-muslim girls deserve it" or words to that effect. To me, there would be a connection with the clear misogyny of Islam, and pretending there is no link is a bit piss weak. Of course, the difficulty is in making the commentary absolutely clear that it is not a racial issue...

[Cunt]

Rum wrote:

...Full marks to the Beeb for not making an issue of the religion of most of the gang members...

I would not mind some careful media commentary which made some issue of it, especially if (as I thought was the case) the accused had made mention of something like "non-muslim girls deserve it" or words to that effect. To me, there would be a connection with the clear misogyny of Islam, and pretending there is no link is a bit piss weak. Of course, the difficulty is in making the commentary absolutely clear that it is not a racial issue...

Why tiptoe?

Sam Harris is a careful stepper. He speaks clearly, and rationally about his dislike of Islam (vs its adherents) and takes pains to be sure of his facts.

Ben Affleck screeched that he is a racist anyway. I do hope you saw the exchange, and hope you give Mr. Harris a bit of the benefit of the doubt compared to what is afforded to Tommy Robinson. I listened to what he said, reflecting on his exchange with Affleck, and I think it was pretty important.

Just the accusation is enough to convince so many people...it's almost criminal that he would make it.

[Brian Peacock]

We're always going to be dragged back to a discussion focused on blaming a religion for the action of people with appalling values - and pointing this out will get you labelled an apologist for Islam.

[Rum]

While the forum is frequented by people who think Trump has a point, then I suspect so.

[JimC]

We're always going to be dragged back to a discussion focused on blaming a religion for the action of people with appalling values - and pointing this out will get you labelled an apologist for Islam.

No doubt the men involved did have appalling values, nor are they typical muslims, but it still seems likely to me that their version of Islam helped them to rationalise their actions...

[Rum]

Only in as much as America’s version of Christianity helped it to rationalise all sorts of morally dubious enterprises surely?

Bad behaviour is just that - bad behaviour. Humans are prone to it, whatever their moral and social environment. Our natures...

[Brian Peacock]

We're always going to be dragged back to a discussion focused on blaming a religion for the action of people with appalling values - and pointing this out will get you labelled an apologist for Islam.

No doubt the men involved did have appalling values, nor are they typical muslims, but it still seems likely to me that their version of Islam helped them to rationalise their actions...

How?

I think when it comes to appalling stuff like this citing a religion as a cause is about as useful and illuminating as citing hair colour or salad dressing preferences. Don't get me wrong, I think Islam is a motherload of wrong, to paraphrase Sam Harris, but the men who did these terrible things did them in spite of their religion rather than because of it.