Republicans: continued

[Seabass]

You're providing the sinister slant. If you intended to say that you'd rather not give anyone other than Americans leverage than you should have said that. But you didn't. You said you didn't want Russia to have this leverage.

The sinister slant is attached to Russia. Just like it is attached to Muslims by the right whenever they need a bogeyman, and some Arab wants to buy up an American company.

Yes, I read the articles before I responded the first time.

Are you going to acknowledge the problem you have in talking about threats from the rest of the world from a position of having been wrong about so many "threats", and never being held accountable, or not?

Lol, of course my objections are specific to Russia. If a Canadian company wants to invest in a Kentucky aluminum plant, that's not a big deal. Canada didn't attack us in 2016. Canada didn't inflict Trump on us. Canada is a close ally, Russia isn't. Oleg Deripaska and his assets and businesses were sanctioned because he played a major role in the attack on our elections. His master Putin wants to destroy the US. He also wants to destroy the West. He has called liberal Democracy "obsolete". Giving Vladimir Putin leverage over our lawmakers is nuts.

[Sean Hayden]

Right, Russia wants to destroy us. They can't be reasoned with, nor expected to act reasonably. Where have I seen this before?

[Joe]

Again Joe, without a government that can be held accountable I don't think you should be talking about the risks posed by Russians.

I am not merely out to whine about all the wrong we've done. It must make some sense to you guys? --right? What do they say, making the same mistakes over and over again is insanity?

No Sean, I don't think you are merely out to whine about our errors and hubris, but I don't think protecting ourselves against what we've dished out is a mistake.

Why do you think securing our elections is a mistake? What am I missing?

[Sean Hayden]

Once again blowing right past your problem, namely a problem of credibility in these matters. That's fine, just keep declaring Russia an enemy of the American people. We know how to play this game comrade...




(oops Jim, I've outed myself! )

[Sean Hayden]

I said earlier that neither the identification of threats nor their solutions can be trusted Joe, might you have missed that?

It's crazy, yes? But this is a serious issue that might need resolving before going forward.

[Seabass]

Right, Russia wants to destroy us. They can't be reasoned with, nor expected to act reasonably. Where have I seen this before?

Come on, man. I'm talking about the Russian government, and Putin and his oligarchs specifically. Don't try to draw some weird parallel between my concerns over the Putin messing with our politics, and Islamophobia. I don't want Putin messing with our politics. That doesn't make me a Russophobe.

[Sean Hayden]

You're totally a Russophobe! But seriously, I don't see that we've given the world much of a choice here. That doesn't mean I want to be manipulated by other governments.

Let's try something different. Let's get some accountability in our government.

--//--

On influence, take steps to counter Russian influence in elections where that influence would be inappropriate e.g. hacking. But don't close doors to things like economic relationships where we made the rules ffs. (Well, actually the Brits did, but they're like a US state now so who cares)

[pErvinalia]

You're providing the sinister slant. If you intended to say that you'd rather not give anyone other than Americans leverage than you should have said that. But you didn't. You said you didn't want Russia to have this leverage.

The sinister slant is attached to Russia. Just like it is attached to Muslims by the right whenever they need a bogeyman, and some Arab wants to buy up an American company.

Yes, I read the articles before I responded the first time.

Are you going to acknowledge the problem you have in talking about threats from the rest of the world from a position of having been wrong about so many "threats", and never being held accountable, or not?

Respectfully, are you living under a rock? Russia is clearly involved in trying to influence American democracy. Wake up.

[Hermit]

No, that is open to interpretation. You are providing the sinister slant. The leverage need not extend into matters that would compromise either National Security or Kentucky folk.

No, it's not open to interpretation. He has the leverage and that is a fact. Whether he uses it in the future remains to be seen, but he has it. That's just a statement of fact. If he can yank the money out, he has leverage. That's how leverage works.

Seriously, did you read the articles that I linked? This is apparently part of a pattern that Russia uses to manipulate politics in other countries. According to one of the articles, they've done it in 19 European countries.

China is doing the same in other parts of Asia as well as in Oceania and Africa. First comes generous financial aid. If the nations that benefit don't do as they're told the money disappears. This is why China manages to build extraterritorial military bases. Not saying that Russia or China will build a naval base in San Diego and refuelling facilities for its air force near Pearl Harbor, but financial aid does create leverage.

Sean, I know you have tried to explain your point of view several times now, but I still don't understand the rationale that underlies your caterwauling. It's too emotional to make sense to me.

[pErvinalia]

I'm struggling to not see it as a form of "we do this, therefore we can't work to protect ourselves from others doing the same."

[Sean Hayden]

Unreal. The problem is China and Russia.

That anyone can say that this is what they do boggles the mind.

It's what everyone who can, does.

So, the problem is with these people doing it, and the problem with that assesment is your credibility. You've got none.

[pErvinalia]

You agree they do it, yet you claim what, exactly? That countries can't work to protect themselves from this sort of activity?

[Sean Hayden]

Oh my lord.

The identification of threats and any proposed solutions must be taken with a huge grain of salt given your own governments penchant for lying through it's teeth to protect its dominance.

Let's get some accountability in our governments, look for new ways to either secure that dominance if it is indeed warranted, or divide power more equally if it's not.

[pErvinalia]

I really don't know what you are going on about.

[pErvinalia]

Do you accept that Russia is a hostile authoritarian state? If so, what's the problem exactly? Don't you want to be protected from such states?