Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

[laklak]

Well, I for one would never allow a woman near my stainless steel cookware. If they insist on fouling my kitchen they can use the cheap non-stick shit.

[Forty Two]

Allow? Allow? You're perpetuating traditional notions of male supremacy which suggests that men allow or permit women to use cookware. In the 21st century, women are "allowed" to use any cookware they like, even yours. Property rights are a social construct.

[pErvinalia]

[Forty Two]

The declaration both called for condemnation of communism, education about communist crimes, prosecution of communist criminals by establishing an international court within the EU for communist crimes, construction of a memorial to the victims of world communism, and reduction of pensions and social security benefits for communist perpetrators. The declaration stated that:

"Communist regimes have committed, and are in some cases still committing, crimes against humanity in all countries of Central and Eastern Europe and in other countries where communism is still alive"
"Crimes against humanity are not subject to statutory limitations according to international law; however, the justice done to perpetrators of Communist crimes over the past 20 years has been extremely unsatisfactory"
"We must not deny the tens of millions of victims of Communism their right to justice"
"Since crimes against humanity committed by the communist regimes do not fall under the jurisdiction of existing international courts, we call for the creation of a new international court with a seat within the EU for the crimes of communism. Communist crimes against humanity must be condemned by this court in a similar way as the Nazi crimes were condemned and sentenced by the Nuremberg tribunal, and as the crimes committed in former Yugoslavia were condemned and sentenced"
"Not punishing the communist criminals means disregard of and thus weakening of international law"
"As an act of reparation and restitution, European countries must introduce legislation that equalizes the pensions and social security benefits of perpetrators of communist crimes so that they are equal to or smaller than those of their victims"
"As democracy must learn to be capable of defending itself, Communism needs to be condemned in a similar way as Nazism was. We are not equating the respective crimes of Nazism and Communism, including the Gulag, the Laogai and the Nazi concentration camps. They should each be studied and judged on their own terrible merits. Communist ideology and communist rule contradict the European Convention of Human Rights and the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the EU. Just as we are not willing to relativise crimes of Nazism, we must not accept a relativisation of crimes of Communism."
"We call upon EU member states to increase the awareness raising and education about crimes of communism; we remind them of the need to implement, without further delay, the Resolution of the European Parliament (2 April 2009) to mark 23 August as the European-wide Day of Remembrance of the victims of all totalitarian and authoritarian regimes."
"We call upon the European Commission and European Council of Justice and Home Affairs to adopt a Framework Decision introducing a pan-European ban on excusing, denying or trivializing the crimes of communism."
"The creation of the Platform of European Memory and Conscience, as supported by the European Parliament and the EU Council in 2009, must be completed at EU level. Individual governments must live up to their commitments regarding the work of the Platform."
"As an act of recognition of the victims and respect for the immense suffering inflicted upon half of the continent, Europe must erect a memorial to the victims of world Communism, following the example of the memorial in the USA in Washington, D.C."[3]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declarati ... _Communism

“Better dead than Red” is what they used to say during the Cold War. But wouldn’t it simply be better to punch a Red right in his good-for-nothing face?

https://thoughtcatalog.com/andrew-syrio ... communist/

Punch a Communist today! It's a moral imperative!

[JimC]

42, I think it would be very hard to find anyone on this forum defending full-on communism. By this, of course, I mean total state control of all enterprises, accompanied by authoritarian state apparatus controlling much of the lives of all except the elite. The experiment has been done, and failed. If countries like Venezuela attempt to re-create it, they will create an economic and social mess (although how much of its current problems are down to a Marxist economic approach, and how much come from being a disorganised third world country with arseholes as leaders is moot). In general, countries that conservatives decry as "socialist" are in fact mixed economies, often with a booming business sector, but with a degree of government action and oversight that raises right-wing hackles (many nations in Europe, for example...). The existence of free enterprise (which certainly promotes innovation and some aspects of personal freedom) is not under threat from most rational, progressive thinkers.

However, the failure of the original Marxist model does not mean an end to valid criticism of capitalism from the left. In the US in particular, and in globalised capital at large, corporations in general, and the very wealthy in particular, have far too much power and political influence, and have little reason to be concerned about the environmental consequences of their corporate actions. For me, a combination of rational centre-left governments, good investigative journalism, a well-educated public and a strong labour movement are all part of the counter-balancing forces needed to keep the robber baron mentality of capitalism (which will never regulate itself) in check...

[pErvinalia]

Commie.

[laklak]

Venezuela is pretty funny right now. Not if you're Venezuelan, of course, but definitely as a fat cat capitalist living off the sweat of the proletariat. Their annual inflation rate is now pegged at 833,997%. If the rate of increase continues next year should be around 10,000,000%. Maduro is their very own Mad Bob.

Down with Capitalism! All power to the people!

https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi

[Forty Two]

42, I think it would be very hard to find anyone on this forum defending full-on communism.

So what? This thread is about Communism. You and others can voice whatever opinions on the topic you want, whether it be "full-on" or "partial-on" communism. LOL "full-on" communism.... I like "communism-lite" - you know, all the good parts of communism, without the stuff that everyone legitimately criticizes.

By this, of course, I mean total state control of all enterprises, accompanied by authoritarian state apparatus controlling much of the lives of all except the elite. The experiment has been done, and failed.

That's why we should punch commies. What they're advocating has been shown to be injurious and deadly to millions of people. Those that carry water for the full-on communists deserve a whack to the choppers too, because they provide cover for and tacit support for the real extreme folk (like the mere alt right and the full on Nazis)..... Given all the injury caused by Communism, even if it's not declared a criminal ideology, it's definitely moral to punch the shit out of them. That we we can drive them from our midst and let them know they are not welcome here, and that they shouldn't be allowed to sleep soundly or eat in peace until they stop spreading their damaging and hateful ideology.

If countries like Venezuela attempt to re-create it, they will create an economic and social mess (although how much of its current problems are down to a Marxist economic approach, and how much come from being a disorganised third world country with arseholes as leaders is moot).

It's not moot, it's the $1 million question. Usually a blurb like that is a way to say "I don't think it's the Marxism that causes much of the trouble, but I don't want to argue about it because it's inarguable that country X is in a ridiculous mess, and when it wasn't a mess, so many people said 'see, look at the socialist success story!' that now it's kinda hard to go back on the suggestion that it was really implementing socialism in the first place..."

In general, countries that conservatives decry as "socialist" are in fact mixed economies,

Oh, yes, quite often. And in general, countires that lefties laud as "socialist" are, in fact, social democracies which are based on a capitalist economic system and owe their economic success to liberalization of said capitalist economies over the past 40 odd years, to wit, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc. The socialism bit of the mixed economy put them in trouble, and economic liberalization led them to the top of the heap economically. It's that liberal economics which affords those countries the economic power (money) to pay for generous social safety nets. They don't get there by adopting half-on communism, socialism or Marxism.

often with a booming business sector, but with a degree of government action and oversight that raises right-wing hackles (many nations in Europe, for example...). The existence of free enterprise (which certainly promotes innovation and some aspects of personal freedom) is not under threat from most rational, progressive thinkers.

They are under threat in the US from the Bernie wing of the Democrat Party, and plainly the Ocasio-Corteth wing of the Democrat party. I would agree that the Hillary wing of the Democrat party is better for free enterprise than the Bernie and Corteth groups, but then again, Hillary isn't a Progressive, either.

However, the failure of the original Marxist model does not mean an end to valid criticism of capitalism from the left. In the US in particular, and in globalised capital at large, corporations in general, and the very wealthy in particular, have far too much power and political influence, and have little reason to be concerned about the environmental consequences of their corporate actions. For me, a combination of rational centre-left governments, good investigative journalism, a well-educated public and a strong labour movement are all part of the counter-balancing forces needed to keep the robber baron mentality of capitalism (which will never regulate itself) in check...

Nobody said anything ended criticism, valid or otherwise. Certainly I didn't.

[Forty Two]

Venezuela is pretty funny right now. Not if you're Venezuelan, of course, but definitely as a fat cat capitalist living off the sweat of the proletariat. Their annual inflation rate is now pegged at 833,997%. If the rate of increase continues next year should be around 10,000,000%. Maduro is their very own Mad Bob.

Down with Capitalism! All power to the people!

https://tradingeconomics.com/venezuela/inflation-cpi

It's not because of the Marxism, though. It's because, unfortunately, we can't seem to find the guys to implement the Marxism who doesn't fuck it up. We need the real Marxism to be applied properly. Next time it will work just fine, and then everyone will get enough to meet their needs, and be compelled to give to the full extent of their ability. That would be just great. Or, maybe they can do half-on communism - from each according to their willingness to give, and to each according to his wildest dreams. That way, it's all good. I like half-on communism. All the good, none of the bad.

[Sean Hayden]

I read many countries have had socialist leaders at various times. Some have succeeded and some haven't.

Even without researching anything though, it's perfectly possible to imagine many things influence the successes or failures of a nation at any period in time besides whether they happen to be socialist or not.

The US has come close to failure many times. This gets back to what I said before about americans being unable or unwilling to see the role pure dumb luck has played in their successes. Diving deeper into the details, I think it would be very difficult, if not impossible to credit something as broad as capitalism for the times when we climbed out of a hole or were elevated in the ranks of world power.

[laklak]

True, we've had our problems, but we've never had 800,000% inflation and no toilet paper when we're sitting on the largest oil reserves in the world. It takes a special kind of really fucking stupid to screw that up.

[Sean Hayden]

Therefore socialism? --come on man

That's propaganda.

[laklak]

Well they've been in power for 20 years now, so who else should be blamed? Big Bad Uncle Sam? Citgo? Trump? Economic problems started under center-left governments, so in typical leftist fashion the solution was MORE leftism. If you've had 20 years to fix things, you've got an educated population, modern infrastructure, and more oil than anyone else anywhere, it should be a no-brainer. Instead there's no food, no jobs, no hope, and currency that is literally far cheaper to wipe your ass with than to buy toilet paper (if you can stand in line for a couple of hours to get a roll). They're international poster boys for failed socialist nonsense.

[laklak]

Honestly, the only excuse I've heard is well that's not TRUE socialism. WTF is it, then?

[Animavore]

There's plenty of other South American countries which show complete capitalism can be a complete disaster. Bolivia and Chile for instance.

History proves unfettered capitalism is completely unsustainable as corruption and abuse pile on top of each other and inequality grows rampant until a revolution or World War levels the playing field.

Capitalism isn't all that and a strict, dogmatic adherence to its supposed virtue is no less religious than being a Communist.