All Things Trump

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Tero » Tue May 01, 2018 10:48 pm

He's got a whole swamp franchise, including Mar-a-lago
Two-thirds say Trump hasn't drained 'swamp' or has made it worse
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... as-made-it
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Seabass » Wed May 02, 2018 12:51 am

#NODICTATION #NOOFFICERAID #FAKENEWS

The demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men he knows to be idiots. ―H.L. Mencken

Bad government is the natural product of rule by those who believe government is bad. —Thomas Frank

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. —Einstein
I’m a nationalist. —Trump

The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. —Hermann Göring

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Tero » Wed May 02, 2018 11:19 am

Collusion on Ukraine:
Trumpin ilmestyessä kuvaan se katosi ohjelmasta:
“I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved,” Trump told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview in July 2016. Asked about his campaign’s role, he said, “They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.”

Democrats who suspect Trump colluded with the Kremlin in the 2016 election have called the change suspicious, saying it could be an example of Trump doing a favor for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Despite his public denial, the platform amendment appeared on a list of questions obtained by The New York Times that Mueller wants to ask Trump in a potential interview. “What involvement did you have concerning platform changes regarding arming Ukraine?” Mueller planned to ask.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ ... can-conven
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Tero » Wed May 02, 2018 11:26 am

”I’m so smart I don’t need experts”
https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/politics ... index.html
He does not even need briefings. All his ideas are given to him daily on Foxnews.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 02, 2018 12:54 pm

Tero wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:19 am
Collusion on Ukraine:
Trumpin ilmestyessä kuvaan se katosi ohjelmasta:
“I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved,” Trump told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview in July 2016. Asked about his campaign’s role, he said, “They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.”

Democrats who suspect Trump colluded with the Kremlin in the 2016 election have called the change suspicious, saying it could be an example of Trump doing a favor for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Despite his public denial, the platform amendment appeared on a list of questions obtained by The New York Times that Mueller wants to ask Trump in a potential interview. “What involvement did you have concerning platform changes regarding arming Ukraine?” Mueller planned to ask.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ ... can-conven
Assuming the worst - Assuming Trump was 100% responsible for the Ukraine policy, what would that mean?
Robert Mueller wants to question President Donald Trump about a change to the 2016 Republican Party platform’s language about Ukraine and Russia, rekindling a subject that House Republicans dismissed as a nonstarter.

Trump has denied any role in a decision by party activists at the 2016 Republican National Convention to strike language calling for the supply of U.S. arms to help Ukraine defend against Russian territorial aggression. Instead, the convention delegates approved only a vague call for the provision of “appropriate assistance” to Ukraine’s pro-Western forces.
Is there some requirement that the US supply arms to Ukraine?

Is it illegal to take steps to have good relations with Russia?

Even if we assume Trump had a telephone call with Vladimir Putin, and Putin said to Trump "what we want is for the GOP platform to say that you'll provide assistance to the Ukraine, but not arms," and Trump said, "I'll see what I can do." Is that illegal?

The article says that Democrats are suspicious bevause it could be an example of Trump doing a favor for Russia. So? If he strengthened the policy and said - "we're going to arm Ukraine to the teeth" because the President of Ukraine said they wanted that, would that be illegal? http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ot-a-crime

What's the crime?




What's happening is the attempted criminalization of politics.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 02, 2018 1:04 pm

Seabass wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:51 am
#NODICTATION #NOOFFICERAID #FAKENEWS

That letter certainly sounds like something Trump would say - but, the doctor said, "He dictated that whole letter. I didn't write that letter," Bornstein told CNN on Tuesday. "I just made it up as I went along."

How can that be true? Trump dictated it. Doctor didn't write it. Doctor made it up as he went along.

So, if he made it up as he went along, then he did write it, and trump did not dictate it. The doctor signed it, and I've never heard of a doctor being obligated to sign letters on behalf of patients that aren't true. Trump was not the President at the time. Why didn't the doctor say "no?"

Did they ask the doctor why he signed the letter if it wasn't true?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Wed May 02, 2018 1:20 pm

I sympathize with Forty Two's disgruntled comments. He just wanted a thread in which he could do some cheer-leading for Trump and the folly of the Nobel Peace Prize committee while also enjoying batting aside the comments of nay-sayers. Instead it's been re-named and has become just another opportunity for members of the site to chronicle the White House dumpster fire. This is why we can't have nice things. :sulk:

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 02, 2018 1:23 pm

Animavore wrote:
Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:42 pm
I'm loving watching the hypocrisy of Trump supporters right now. When Trump mocks the handicapped, denigrates women, and insults foreigners he's, "Telling it like it is."

Wolf comes along and literally tells it like it is and now they're all offended.
As opposed to the hypocrisy of Trump opponents? LOL. You think you are consistent, Animavore? Really?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 02, 2018 1:36 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:20 pm
I sympathize with Forty Two's disgruntled comments. He just wanted a thread in which he could do some cheer-leading for Trump and the folly of the Nobel Peace Prize committee while also enjoying batting aside the comments of nay-sayers. Instead it's been re-named and has become just another opportunity for members of the site to chronicle the White House dumpster fire. This is why we can't have nice things. :sulk:
Well, actually, It was a thread to "discuss" the issue of Trump getting a Nobel Peace Prize. We have a news, politics and current events category, and the proposed thread fit all three. It was not repetitive of other threads, because it was a new event. It warrants further discussion, because there is a lot more coming, with the long process of peace on the Korean peninsula largely ahead of us.

The naysayers have arguments - I've seen a lot in the media already. Some are retarded, like idiots who just think that because Trump is an asshole that it would be an atrocity for him to receive the Nobel peace prize. However, there are, I'm sure, reasoned arguments why he would not be deserving in this instance.

In 2012, the European Union, of all monstrosities, received the Peace Prize. Many objections were leveled at that award.

In 2009, Barack Obama was nominated for the Peace Prize no later than 11 days after he took office, and the award was given to him 9 months into his administration for his "extraordinary efforts toward peace..."

In 2007, Al Gore got it for "climate change" work, even though that's not directly related to ending conflict, and he was full of shit.

In 2005, Waangari Matthai was awarded the prize, despite claiming that AIDS was created by the white man to depopulate Africa.

Anwar Sadat, Yassir Arafat, Henry Kissinger -- all recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize.

Henry Kissinger - 1973 - Nobel Peace Prize.

Adolph Hitler was nominated in 1939, lol, but it was suspended and no award given. I guess because of the Invasion of Poland or annexations?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed May 02, 2018 1:57 pm


Forty Two wrote:
Seabass wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:51 am
#NODICTATION #NOOFFICERAID #FAKENEWS

That letter certainly sounds like something Trump would say - but, the doctor said, "He dictated that whole letter. I didn't write that letter," Bornstein told CNN on Tuesday. "I just made it up as I went along."

How can that be true? Trump dictated it. Doctor didn't write it. Doctor made it up as he went along.

So, if he made it up as he went along, then he did write it, and trump did not dictate it. The doctor signed it, and I've never heard of a doctor being obligated to sign letters on behalf of patients that aren't true. Trump was not the President at the time. Why didn't the doctor say "no?"

Did they ask the doctor why he signed the letter if it wasn't true?
Where did you pick that up?

A charitable person might suggest that it's not required to be exclusively one thing or the other; that under instruction Trump could've told him what to say and the doctor wrote it down - some of it word for word, perhaps at the insistence the President, and some of it in a more general way.

Personally I think this application of a necessary mutual exclusivity is a lame way to distract from controversy by creating futher controversy - but I guess it will do for some.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 02, 2018 2:06 pm

Well, we have an educated man, a physician. Dictation means reading aloud for transcription. When I used to "dictate" stuff for an assistant, she took it down word-for-word. It's not dictation if you suggest points to be included, but leave the wording up to the other person.

We are meant to be given the impression (by the doctor) that Trump "dictated" the letter - that it is Trump's writing, not his. The doctor then says, flat out "I did not write it." Well, if someone just says to you that they're going to give you points that need to be covered in a letter, and you write it up, then you did write it. You can't say you didn't write it, because you did. Add to that that the doc says "i made it up as i went along." I made it up. "I" made it up. How did he make it up, if he did not write it?

The letter sounds ridiculous. "I can tell you unequivocally that he would be the healthiest President in American history..." or whatever? On what basis would a doctor say this? What kind of a doctor would put his name to that? He can't know that to be true. And, I sure don't see trump using the world "unequivocally."

What possible reason would the doctor have for signing such a letter? Did he need the money? Was Trump his only patient, or something?

And, look at the guy. Something is going on there.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Animavore » Wed May 02, 2018 2:29 pm


Opinions

Trump is where the end begins


Supporters cheer President Trump at a Michigan rally on April 28. (Joshua Roberts/Reuters)

By Richard Cohen Opinion writer April 30 at 8:11 PM Email the author 

The Economist, a weekly news magazine of British pedigree, devoted a recent cover to an obituary. The stiff in question is the GOP, once the party of Abraham Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt but now decidedly that of Donald Trump. He has taken it over. He demands personal loyalty, refuses to abide dissent and rules by whim. For the once Grand Old Party, its mascot is no longer the elephant but the chicken, and its parade march is the grovel. Watch most Republicans do it.

President Trump’s way of governing and his almost absolute lack of political principles is often referred to as “Trumpism.” This is a dandy term, because it moves us past the temptation to say “fascism” — the subject of countless articles and books, including two important ones. The respected Dutch public intellectual Rob Riemen calls his book “To Fight Against This Age: On Fascism and Humanism”, while Madeleine Albright, as befits her admirably direct style, comes right out and says it: “Fascism: A Warning”.

But to Americans the term fascism is off-putting. It comes freighted with all sorts of baggage that does not describe Trump. Foremost, he is not an anti-Semite. Jew-hatred was the sine qua non of the most prominent fascist movements, particularly Germany’s, where the murder of Jews was of the highest priority. Italy, where the term fascism originated, followed suit.

Trump has an authoritarian bent, but as his Jewish friends can attest and the conversion of his daughter to Judaism proves, he lacks fascism’s most recognizable feature. Michael Cohen, I dare say, would not take a bullet for a Jew-hater.

So the term “Trumpism” works best because it describes something uniquely American. It’s true that nations all over the world have moved to the authoritarian right, but China, Russia, Poland, Hungary and others are returning to their histories. These nations were never democracies for very long. The United States is different. The closest thing we previously had to Trump was Huey Long, the 1930s-era governor and then senator from Louisiana. He had the makings of a dictator, but he was killed before he could mount a presidential campaign. Long, to his credit, actually had a program.

 2:41

Opinion | Macron acted like a sycophant to trump Trump

Opinion writers Molly Roberts, Max Boot, Erik Wemple and Dana Milbank discuss the French president's balancing act with President Trump during his U.S. visit. (The Washington Post)

Trumpism has no such program. He sometimes mentions jobs, but that’s just a talking point. His most consistent reference points are his own grudges. For all his wealth, Trump is a bundle of insecurities and resentments. In that way, he validates similar feelings in others. If they loathe the establishment, so does he. If they loathe foreign aid, so does he. If they misunderstand trade agreements, so does he. If they fret over an America that is less white and more tolerant of homosexuality and immigrants, then so does he. If they recoil from a news media that talks the PC language they abhor, so does he. They are him. He is them. That’s the program.

If Trumpism needs an emblem, I suggest a bust of Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.). He was once renowned as a congressional iconoclast, a team player for his own team only, and widely disliked as a result. During the presidential primaries, Cruz hit his stride, denouncing Trump as an “utterly immoral” “pathological liar,” “serial philanderer” and “sniveling coward.” Trump, of course, responded in kind, even suggesting that Cruz’s father was somehow linked to John F. Kennedy’s assassination.

No matter. In a recent issue of Time magazine, Cruz revealed his new-found admiration for Trump. His joy at the Trump administration could hardly be contained. The article is a model of “sniveling” political cowardice.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... e7234f8505

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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed May 02, 2018 8:34 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:06 pm
Well, we have an educated man, a physician. Dictation means reading aloud for transcription. When I used to "dictate" stuff for an assistant, she took it down word-for-word. It's not dictation if you suggest points to be included, but leave the wording up to the other person.

We are meant to be given the impression (by the doctor) that Trump "dictated" the letter - that it is Trump's writing, not his. The doctor then says, flat out "I did not write it." Well, if someone just says to you that they're going to give you points that need to be covered in a letter, and you write it up, then you did write it. You can't say you didn't write it, because you did. Add to that that the doc says "i made it up as i went along." I made it up. "I" made it up. How did he make it up, if he did not write it?

The letter sounds ridiculous. "I can tell you unequivocally that he would be the healthiest President in American history..." or whatever? On what basis would a doctor say this? What kind of a doctor would put his name to that? He can't know that to be true. And, I sure don't see trump using the world "unequivocally."

What possible reason would the doctor have for signing such a letter? Did he need the money? Was Trump his only patient, or something?

And, look at the guy. Something is going on there.
As I said, there is no requirement for it to be black or white; only one thing or another: the doctor either took dictation in the manner you described re your assistant, as a verbatim fecord, or the doctor single-handedly fabricated the contents of the statement without the input of the President, and thus; that if the statement was not a verbatim record of the President's utterances then it must, and can only ever be, a fabrication produced without the President's input. As I hinted before, to rely on such an argument is to rely on the polarised thinking of a false dichotomy or dilemma.

However, I would agree with your statement that "It's not dictation if you suggest points to be included, but leave the wording up to the other person" at least when talking of dictation in the verbatim sense, but can we really exclude all other possible meanings of the term 'dictate' such that it forecloses on the notion that Trump could have dictated the content and/or the terms of the statement, in the sense of an obliged or required instruction, while leaving the final wording to his physician, or that the statement could have been produced from a combination of the two?

Would you dispute or entirely exclude the doctor's claim that the health statement was produced under his client's instruction on the basis of the application of a singular, exclusive meaning of a single word?

Whatever the facts of the case, it seems pretty clear that both of us are applying a higher level of critical consideration to this matter than either the President or his personal physician: what does it mean to dictate, to be dictated to, or to take or give dictation &c. If we continue down this road I'm sure we could have an interesting discussion touching on the conflict between formal and colloquial meanings of various word forms, and perhaps we would even agree on how a person who, as in your own example, relies upon an amanuensis to generate a verbatim account of their utterances can legitimately be referred to as 'a dictator'. Is or was Trump a dictator, and in what sense does he dictate? This of course is all by-and-by isn't it? Which I guess is kind of the point of it in the first place.

As to the motivation of the good doctor - well, first I would like you to address your own questions if you actually have a point to make in relation to said motivation. Otherwise it seems completely irrelevant to the essence of what the doctor is asserting: that the contents of the his statement on the state of the President's health was, as it were, a big fat lie peddled at the President's insistence.
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by Tero » Thu May 03, 2018 12:21 am

http://karireport.blogspot.com/ (:_funny_:)
http://esapolitics.blogspot.com/
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Re: All Things Trump

Post by pErvinalia » Thu May 03, 2018 12:24 am

Forty Two wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 12:54 pm
Tero wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:19 am
Collusion on Ukraine:
Trumpin ilmestyessä kuvaan se katosi ohjelmasta:
“I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved,” Trump told ABC’s George Stephanopoulos in an interview in July 2016. Asked about his campaign’s role, he said, “They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.”

Democrats who suspect Trump colluded with the Kremlin in the 2016 election have called the change suspicious, saying it could be an example of Trump doing a favor for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Despite his public denial, the platform amendment appeared on a list of questions obtained by The New York Times that Mueller wants to ask Trump in a potential interview. “What involvement did you have concerning platform changes regarding arming Ukraine?” Mueller planned to ask.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/ ... can-conven
Assuming the worst - Assuming Trump was 100% responsible for the Ukraine policy, what would that mean?
Robert Mueller wants to question President Donald Trump about a change to the 2016 Republican Party platform’s language about Ukraine and Russia, rekindling a subject that House Republicans dismissed as a nonstarter.

Trump has denied any role in a decision by party activists at the 2016 Republican National Convention to strike language calling for the supply of U.S. arms to help Ukraine defend against Russian territorial aggression. Instead, the convention delegates approved only a vague call for the provision of “appropriate assistance” to Ukraine’s pro-Western forces.
Is there some requirement that the US supply arms to Ukraine?

Is it illegal to take steps to have good relations with Russia?

Even if we assume Trump had a telephone call with Vladimir Putin, and Putin said to Trump "what we want is for the GOP platform to say that you'll provide assistance to the Ukraine, but not arms," and Trump said, "I'll see what I can do." Is that illegal?

The article says that Democrats are suspicious bevause it could be an example of Trump doing a favor for Russia. So? If he strengthened the policy and said - "we're going to arm Ukraine to the teeth" because the President of Ukraine said they wanted that, would that be illegal? http://thehill.com/homenews/administrat ... ot-a-crime

What's the crime?




What's happening is the attempted criminalization of politics.
C'mon, you're not this simple. It's being investigated as potentially corroborating evidence that Trump et al were in bed with Russia. :roll:
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