Bitcoin about to Pop

[pErvinalia]

Is Copper pump and dump? According to Hermit it can't be a commodity because it lost 50% of its value in a short time frame. Must be a scam.

GraphEngine.ashx.png (29.19 KiB) Viewed 1737 times

[Svartalf]

Technically; it's not gold, itsd only value is if there are folk willing to use it as currency... and it lacks the backing of a state to make it legal tender... of course, it often serves as currency for illegal transactions, which means there's a good chance it might end up outlawed outright.

[pErvinalia]

It doesn't actually have to be used as a currency for anything to retain its utility as a storage of value. That it can be used as a currency is an additional utility.

[Hermit]

Is Copper pump and dump? According to Hermit it can't be a commodity because it lost 50% of its value in a short time frame. Must be a scam.
g

Copper is a consumable commodity. Currencies are not. Their rise and fall is just a form of gambling. What makes cryptocurrencies even worse is that they don't even represent a notional valuation of any particular nation's or trading block's economy.

Wanna do another lap?

[pErvinalia]

Still haven't explained how bitcoin is a scam.

The copper price didn't plummet because of consumption (or supply). It was due to speculation. So again, using your argument, copper can't be a commodity.

What makes copper even worse is that it doesn't even represent a notional valuation of any particular nation's or trading block's economy. By the way, dollars don't represent a notional valuation blah blah. That's GDP. Dollars are the unit.

Basically bitcoin is broadly equivalent to a host of existing commodities and financial securities. It's not a scam. It might be a shit investment, but that doesn't make something a scam.

[pErvinalia]

Here's something I wrote about cryptocurrency and value on the Steem blockchain ages ago:

Where does STEEM get its value from?

A cryptocurrency gets it value from the same place that ordinary currency gets it - from widespread trust. We don't value 'real' dollars because they contain any inherent value (like a commodity does; gold, for example). We value them because we trust that others will accept that currency for goods and services. And while 'real' dollars are backed by the state and/or a reserve bank, it's not like you can go to the government or reserve bank and get something of tangible value, like gold, in exchange for your bits of paper/plastic. All you'll get from them in exchange is more of the same type of currency. So in that regard, a cryptocurrency is no different from 'real' money.

The problem in this sphere is that most of the public don't really understand what money actually is and how it is created. So there is a lot of misconception about both 'real' money and cryptocurrencies. You can see this play out everyday regarding Bitcoin. People have been predicting that Bitcoin will crash and burn since day one, because they percieve that it isn't backed by any real value. The reason why it hasn't crashed (it has in fact increased massively in value) is that, like 'real' money, it doesn't need anything of value backing it. Its value comes from trust.

STEEM is no different in this regard. Where STEEM and the steem blockchain are unique is in what the currency can be exchanged for. With 'real' money, you usually exchange it for goods, and less so, services. The figure that is used to summarise economic health - GDP - records monetary exchanges for goods and services. But it's important to realise that there's no inherent reason why what GDP measures is the best summary of economic (which is ultimately social) health. We could just as easily measure other interactions. The steem blockchain measures social interactions, the like we have all seen and taken part in on social networks like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram etc.

The steem blockchain rewards good social media content with the cryptocurrency STEEM. "Good" is judged by the community, so there is an authority to that valuation, and hence an authority to the value of STEEM. This is where STEEM gets its value from. While ever there are people wanting to consume quality social media (which is all of you reading this), STEEM will have value. And STEEM can be exchanged for 'real' money.

[rainbow]

None of that makes it a scam.

Pump and Dump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

Where's your evidence that it's pump and dump?

The 20 000 click-bait ads that tells us to invest all our money into a baseless investment.

If you look at the shape of the graph, you can see that prices rose on hype, then fell on the sales of those that dumped their "stock".

[rainbow]

Is Copper pump and dump? According to Hermit it can't be a commodity because it lost 50% of its value in a short time frame. Must be a scam.

GraphEngine.ashx.png

Commodities are also susceptible to pump and dump. More difficult with copper itself, because of the large volumes traded, and ongoing production and recycling. Minor metals, and even orange juice concentrate and pork bellies have been subject to pump and dump scams.

[pErvinalia]

None of that makes it a scam.

Pump and Dump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

Where's your evidence that it's pump and dump?

The 20 000 click-bait ads that tells us to invest all our money into a baseless investment.

That's a begging the question fallacy. It's also not evidence of anything other than shonky advertising.

If you look at the shape of the graph, you can see that prices rose on hype, then fell on the sales of those that dumped their "stock".

Even if that event was a pump and dump, that's not evidence that bitcoin is a scam. That's only evidence that unethical behaviour happened at one point. In any case, how are you distinguishing this event from a regular bubble? Where's the evidence that the sellers of bitcoin were the same ones who bought it before/during its price explosion?

[pErvinalia]

Is Copper pump and dump? According to Hermit it can't be a commodity because it lost 50% of its value in a short time frame. Must be a scam.

GraphEngine.ashx.png

Commodities are also susceptible to pump and dump. More difficult with copper itself, because of the large volumes traded, and ongoing production and recycling. Minor metals, and even orange juice concentrate and pork bellies have been subject to pump and dump scams.

You didn't really address the point. Is copper a scam? If you are claiming a pump and dump event is evidence that the underlying commodity/security is a scam, as you are doing for bitcoin, then you will have to accept the ridiculous conclusion that copper is potentially a scam.

[pErvinalia]

I suspect that what you are trying to convey is that bitcoin is a particularly risky investment due to lack of regulation. That's something I'd definitely agree with.

[rainbow]

None of that makes it a scam.

Pump and Dump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pump_and_dump

Where's your evidence that it's pump and dump?

The 20 000 click-bait ads that tells us to invest all our money into a baseless investment.

That's a begging the question fallacy.

No it isn't.

It's also not evidence of anything other than shonky advertising.

Shonky advertising?
To what end, besides to pump?

[rainbow]

Is Copper pump and dump? According to Hermit it can't be a commodity because it lost 50% of its value in a short time frame. Must be a scam.

GraphEngine.ashx.png

Commodities are also susceptible to pump and dump. More difficult with copper itself, because of the large volumes traded, and ongoing production and recycling. Minor metals, and even orange juice concentrate and pork bellies have been subject to pump and dump scams.

You didn't really address the point. Is copper a scam? If you are claiming a pump and dump event is evidence that the underlying commodity/security is a scam, as you are doing for bitcoin, then you will have to accept the ridiculous conclusion that copper is potentially a scam.

I can use copper wire to steal electricity from my neighbour.

How can you use bitcoin?

[Scot Dutchy]

Bitcoin is fresh air. You cant physically hold it. It has no other function than a scam. Its only worth is what an idiot will give for it and that is only digitally. It has no backing or underwriting. The ones who start are the ones that make a profit as new idiots come along and buy into the scam. It is only as good as new idiots come and buy in. If nobody bought in it would crash. Of course people are making money as every rise and fall makes profits. You can make money on a negative economy. It is stimulated by hype and greed. It belongs with pyramid selling.

[rainbow]

Bitcoin is fresh air. You cant physically hold it. It has no other function than a scam. Its only worth is what an idiot will give for it and that is only digitally. It has no backing or underwriting. The ones who start are the ones that make a profit as new idiots come along and buy into the scam. It is only as good as new idiots come and buy in. If nobody bought in it would crash. Of course people are making money as every rise and fall makes profits. You can make money on a negative economy. It is stimulated by hype and greed. It belongs with pyramid selling.

At least you could wipe your arse with Zimbabwe Dollars