US v Manafort

[pErvinalia]

far and away better than the alternative.

Only deranged idiots believe that.

You should do some self-examination and find out where your rage and derangement come from.

The alternative would be higher taxes,

You need higher taxes to address your out of control deficit.

likely another foreign intervention,

Iran, anyone?

poor policy regarding ISIS,

What do you base this on?

and likely a big push for the absurd "medicare for all"

Why is it absurd? UHC is cheaper and more civilised than what you have.

and socialized college,

What is "socialized college"? Assuming you mean free education, good. There's no better investment a state can make in its citizens than health and education.

She promised to put coal mines out of business.

Good. They are a prime cause of global warming.

She wanted to raise taxes.

Good. Fix your deficit.

The US embassy in Israel would still be in Tel Aviv.

How anyone can think this would be a bad thing is beyond me.

The Iran deal would still be in place,

Good.

Right now, we have lower taxes, lower unemployment,

Meaningless stat.

good stock market,

A good gambling market, you mean.

good foreign policy moves,

WTF?! He's trashed your allies, and cozied up to dictators. He's also started a trade ward.

increasing manufacturing (when we were all told that was impossible),

Somehow I doubt that.

good policy initiatives re China

He's started a half a trillion or thereabouts trade war ffs.

a defeated ISIS

Nothing to do with Trump. That was Russia and Syria.

, no new wars in sight,

Umm... Iran.

[Brian Peacock]

Rachel's gaining some weight, from the looks of that interview.

But, if the Rick Gates testimony is deemed persuasive of anything to anybody, I'd be surpised. He admitted not only to various crimes, but he admitted to embezzling money from Manafort himself, and from the Trump campaign in 2016 before he was fired. He admitted to lying so many times to the authorities that he cannot remember them all. Then he "flipped" and wants the jury to believe him that it's all Manafort. I lied to the cops, and I stole from my boss repeatedly, but believe me, he's ordered me to all sorts of bad stuff.

His lies have been exposed and he's 'fessed up now, but you reckon
he'd be more believable if he'd been more of an honest kind of criminal who never lied about his activity?

So the prosecution took the first three days of the trial trying to sour the jury against Manafort by showing that he's a rich guy with fancy suits, while the judge repeated chastized them for doing so.

Reasonable doubt is the standard.

Putting aside the suggestion that the testimony of co-conspirators should be discounted as evidence, I guess this means it's actually Gates who the jury should really be soured against? And is that because he's too closely bound to the President or because Manafort is a solid, decent kind of bloke who just happens to have been caught up in a political #WITCHHUNT?

[Forty Two]

I reckon that having told so many lies that he can no longer remember them all, and then cutting a deal with the prosecutor to throw someone else under the bus, creates a potential reason for a juror to be suspicious of the proximity of his current statements to the truth. Now, prosecutors cut deals all the time, and a prime cross examination issue is the deal cut with the prosecutors. See, e.g. http://apps.americanbar.org/litigation/ ... tches.html

Is he singing, or is he composing?

Would a person who lied through their teeth to the prosecutors, lied to their employer, stole from their employer, and says they knowingly prepared paperwork for tax evasion and money laundering also lie in testimony offered in order to cut a deal with prosecutors? I think obviously the answer to that is yes. However, whether that ultimately raises reasonable doubt as to Manafort's guilt remains to be seen. The evidence may well be overwhelming, and there are also reports that there was rock solid evidence presented that something like $16 million was hidden by manafort to avoid taxes. So, if there is solid other evidence to convict, then the fact that a snitch may not be very believable may not be enough to create reasonable doubt.

[laklak]

I'd rather address the deficit by not spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave.

[Forty Two]

Giving money and power to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to a teenager. (paraphrasing PJ O'Rourke)

[Tero]

Good old PJ. I’ve met him. They don’t make right wingers like they used to.

[Tero]

Fucking judge is fucking mad at Mueller's prosecutors at fucking Manafort trial!

"Well, let me be clear: I don't care what the transcript says," Ellis snapped, before backing down a little. "Maybe I made a mistake. But I want you to remember don't do that again. When I exclude witnesses, I mean everybody. Now, it may be that I didn't make that clear."

The judge's tone suggested he was disturbed by the prosecutors' actions, although he eventually declared, "It's not a big deal.
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/08/ ... lis-769889

[BarnettNewman]

That's what the thread is for - to continue the discussion as the case progresses partisan speculation.

FIFY

[pErvinalia]

I'd rather address the deficit by not spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave.

With the military budget, I agree.

[JimC]

I'd rather address the deficit by not spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave.

With the military budget, I agree.

Careful now! The money that drunken US sailors spend on booze, drugs and women on shore visits to Oz is a crucial part of our economy...

[pErvinalia]

The US really is fucked. I can't see it not going down the toilet due to its irrational economic policies. Not to mention Trump exacerbating them all with his nutty policies.

[Tero]

I don’t think there is a military budget. After they spend a little on ”people stuff” and a few federal agencies the rest is ALL military.

[pErvinalia]

It's more than "the rest". There's a massive deficit too. So it's "the rest" and another couple of hundred billion.

[Brian Peacock]

So is Gates merely Manafort's employee, as suggested, or more of a business partner (apart from being his co-conspirator)? He started at Manafort, Black and Stone, has held various executive positions with Manafort and a number of Russian and Ukrainian entities, and has been variously described as Manafort's protege, right-hand man, and even his consigliere.

Washington Post profile.

[laklak]

I'd rather address the deficit by not spending money like drunken sailors on shore leave.

With the military budget, I agree.

Careful now! The money that drunken US sailors spend on booze, drugs and women on shore visits to Oz is a crucial part of our economy...

Look what happened to Subic Bay when the U.S. pulled out. 1,000,000 taxi drivers, bartenders, hookers, pawnbrokers, and lady-boys out of work overnight.