Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

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Forty Two
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Re: Steve Paikin Accused of Sexual Harassment

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:59 pm

Rum wrote:I think men are just going to have to grit our teeth and take it for a while. Seems to me there's a bit of retribution and balancing of the scales going on right now. Men probably deserve all that's coming even if there are individual miscarriages of justice - however regrettable that might be.

Many women would of course point to the huge number of rapes and other misogynistic offences that go unresolved every year.
...well, nobody says it's good that they go unresolved.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Steve Paikin Accused of Sexual Harassment

Post by Forty Two » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:02 pm

NineBerry wrote:
JimC wrote:Asking once or twice is fine, but continuing after that, in the face of a clear-cut "no" starts to become stalking and harassment.
Asking even once is not fine in a business setting.
One, Paikin says he never asked her to, and, two, the settings in the allegations were not business settings.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by NineBerry » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:13 pm

Yes, they are business settings. They didn't get together because they are friends, but because she is a politician and he is a journalist.

if she is lying about him asking her for sex, this is a different matter. But we cannot know that.

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Forty Two » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Look, they are not employer/employee, or even coworkers. He has no position of power of her. They were at lunch at Grano, after which - she says - he asked her to sleep with him. She replied, no, noting that she would never do that.

That's the end of it. Even if that's true, that's not sexual harassment. I guess she's entitled to report what she wants to the media, but it sounds stupid to me. So what? He asked, she said no. Nothing happened.

She reports that on several later occasions, at political functions, he made similar overtures. O.k. He probably should stop after she says no, but human interaction is complicated and people say a lot of things in casual conversation which when taken out of context become inappropriate.

He denies ever suggesting sex with her.

What are we supposed to do with this information? What is the CBC supposed to do?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by NineBerry » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:02 pm

A journalist and a politician meeting because of their respective professions is a business setting. I am just discussing the idea whether proposing sex would be appropriate in such a setting. We cannot know who of the two tells the truth.

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Forty Two » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:08 pm

NineBerry wrote:A journalist and a politician meeting because of their respective professions is a business setting. I am just discussing the idea whether proposing sex would be appropriate in such a setting. We cannot know who of the two tells the truth.
Nothing in the article said they met "because of their respective professions." They were at a lunch first, and then the next allegations relate to "political functions." Political functions often involve drinking and socializing.

To me, I find it hard to imagine any time when "proposing sex" out of the blue, without a significant romantic context, is "appropriate." If it happened, it's decidedly inappropriate, it seems to me, unless there is something dramatic left out of the story. However, women are not wilting flowers, and they are able to withstand the tumultuous nature of "inappropriate" conversation.

Anyone thinking of their own conversations - most people, anyway - at various lunch and other settings - will think of times when the conversation gets rather "inappropriate" if you clipped lines from the discussion (or even if you didn't). People talk rather crass and vulgar from time-to-time.

Adults really should be able to police their own conversations, generally speaking. Harassment, should, IMO, refer to situations where someone is engaging in a repeated course of conduct which is so severe and pervasive as to alter the terms and conditions of employment or to represent a significant change in a person's working environment (creating a hostile or offensive work environment). Beyond that, outside the work or school context, we're really left with the the general law of harassment, which involves some rather specific and rather severe conduct.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by NineBerry » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:14 pm

[...]

There is still one man whose actions haunt me. In 2010 when I was running for Mayor of Toronto, I was on a political talk show with the other top four candidates. The show was widely watched and it helped my numbers in the polls, so the next time I saw the host I asked if I might get on his show again. Always kind and friendly, he suggested we meet over lunch to discuss. My assistant and I met him at Grano’s on Yonge Street, and the three of us ordered our lunch. Not five minutes into the lunch the host asked me if I would sleep with him.

[...]
https://www.womenspost.ca/author/sarahthomson/

A lunch to discuss the politician appearing on the journalist's television program. Clearly a business settings.

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by laklak » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:39 pm

Just tell the slimy little prick to fuck the fuck off and have done with it.

She also believes that liars attract "negative energy" to them that "manifests" as cancer. I'm skeptical.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by NineBerry » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:42 pm

laklak wrote:Just tell the slimy little prick to fuck the fuck off and have done with it.
Reading the text, he does have some power, because he can decide who appears on his show. Appearing on a show is good for politicians during a campaign.

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:40 am

She should have just said yes.
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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Forty Two » Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:33 pm

NineBerry wrote:A journalist and a politician meeting because of their respective professions is a business setting. I am just discussing the idea whether proposing sex would be appropriate in such a setting. We cannot know who of the two tells the truth.
To some people, proposing sex overtly is always inappropriate.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Sean Hayden » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:02 pm

But most are okay with asking a second or third time? :hehe:

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Forty Two » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:51 pm

It's not really a question of "ok." It's a question of whether it's "harassment." Asking people inappropriate questions is not necessarily harassment.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by JimC » Wed Feb 28, 2018 8:18 pm

Forty Two wrote:It's not really a question of "ok." It's a question of whether it's "harassment." Asking people inappropriate questions is not necessarily harassment.
Continuing to do so after being firmly refused certainly is...
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Re: Celebrity Sexual Harassment Charge Sheet

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:05 am

Ah, but as it's the prerogative of ladies to change their minds you have to keep the pestering up just in case...

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