Happy Columbus Day!

[Forty Two]

The great Italian explorer, sailing for the Crown of Spain, discovered the North America in 1492 when he landed -- where was it again? What? Hispaniola?

And, the "activist" crowd defaces statues and engages in other "nonviolent" protest - http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2017/10/09/ ... umbus-day/

Boo! Christopher Columbus! Boo!

[Svartalf]

Well, without columbus, the history of Europe would be very different now (no influx of precious metals, no access to colonial products like cane sugar, cotton, indigo and coffee, and no access to American crops like tomato, potato, tobacco, chili peppers or chocolate.... so much as I rue what happened to the indigens, I'll still hail Cristobal Colon

[L'Emmerdeur]

Yeah, he's a real hero.

Christopher Columbus believed that Indians would serve as a slave labor force for Europeans, especially on the sugar cane plantations off the western coast of north Africa. Convinced that the Taino Indians of the Caribbean would make ideal slaves, he transported 500 to Spain in 1495. Some 200 died during the overseas voyage. Thus Columbus initiated the African slave trade, which originally moved from the New World to the Old, rather than the reverse.

[source]

[Hermit]

Well, without columbus, the history of Europe would be very different now (no influx of precious metals, no access to colonial products like cane sugar, cotton, indigo and coffee, and no access to American crops like tomato, potato, tobacco, chili peppers or chocolate.... so much as I rue what happened to the indigens, I'll still hail Cristobal Colon

In view of our currently active forum members from the USA I wish the earth were flat and Columbus had sailed off the edge, never to be seen or heard of again, even if this were at the cost of never experiencing the pleasures that cane sugar, cotton, indigo, tomato, potato, tobacco, chilli pepper and chocolate bring.

[rainbow]

Cristoforo Colombo era un Italiano

[Svartalf]

so he was, from Genoa an I remember right, but he worked for the Spaniards...

[Clinton Huxley]

No Chris Columbus, no Portugese and Spanish Empires, Ottoman Empire doesn't decline and the Turks conquer western Europe.

Or not.

[Svartalf]

You believe that Lepanto would not have happened without Columbus?

[NineBerry]

No Chris Columbus, no Portugese and Spanish Empires, Ottoman Empire doesn't decline and the Turks conquer western Europe.

Or not.

Allahu Akbar!

[Svartalf]

let's have another crusade.

[Forty Two]

Yeah, he's a real hero.

Christopher Columbus believed that Indians would serve as a slave labor force for Europeans, especially on the sugar cane plantations off the western coast of north Africa. Convinced that the Taino Indians of the Caribbean would make ideal slaves, he transported 500 to Spain in 1495. Some 200 died during the overseas voyage. Thus Columbus initiated the African slave trade, which originally moved from the New World to the Old, rather than the reverse.

[source]

Certainly not nice, per our current prevailing morality. However, that viewpoint was not particular to or originated by Christopher Columbus. Almost anyone born at that time was racist, and accepting of slavery. He's not a hero for his views on and treatment of Caribbean natives. He's celebrated as an Italian who did something great at the time. Like Winston Churchill - certain had racist views, but is revered nonetheless. The Queen Mother was racist, having problems with the Jews, and warning people to beware of the "blackamoors." The Founding Fathers of the US were racist, for sure - even those that did not believe in slavery would have thought equality between blacks and whites to be ridiculous. Even Abraham Lincoln would never have supported black equality to whites. Yet, these folks are honored and revered in their own right. Julius Caesar is revered for his part, but he bragged about killing a million Gauls.

[Forty Two]

Well, without columbus, the history of Europe would be very different now (no influx of precious metals, no access to colonial products like cane sugar, cotton, indigo and coffee, and no access to American crops like tomato, potato, tobacco, chili peppers or chocolate.... so much as I rue what happened to the indigens, I'll still hail Cristobal Colon

In view of our currently active forum members from the USA I wish the earth were flat and Columbus had sailed off the edge, never to be seen or heard of again, even if this were at the cost of never experiencing the pleasures that cane sugar, cotton, indigo, tomato, potato, tobacco, chilli pepper and chocolate bring.

What are your thoughts on James Cook?

[Forty Two]

You believe that Lepanto would not have happened without Columbus?

Huxley has a fair point, because if the west had not been opened up, and the resources not been available to Europe, then the subsequent invasions by the Musselmen into Europe -- not just Lepanto, but Vienna, the reconquest of Hungary from the Turks, and the rest of the Hapsburg-Ottoman wars might have ended differently. Or, not, of course, but there is an argument to be made.

[Sean Hayden]

Julius Caesar is revered for his part, but he bragged about killing a million Gauls

--no easy feat, that.

[rainbow]

Well, without columbus, the history of Europe would be very different now (no influx of precious metals, no access to colonial products like cane sugar, cotton, indigo and coffee, and no access to American crops like tomato, potato, tobacco, chili peppers or chocolate.... so much as I rue what happened to the indigens, I'll still hail Cristobal Colon

In view of our currently active forum members from the USA I wish the earth were flat and Columbus had sailed off the edge, never to be seen or heard of again, even if this were at the cost of never experiencing the pleasures that cane sugar, cotton, indigo, tomato, potato, tobacco, chilli pepper and chocolate bring.

What are your thoughts on James Cook?

The Hawaiians found him a bit 'stringy'.