"Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:18 pm

JimC wrote:Sure, in academia there are people with at least some of the ideas you mention, and many of them are pretty hard-line and irrationally sure of their own position. Some mild versions of their ideas intersect with some pretty tame trends in modern society, which are typically no more than attempts to reduce structural inequality. But their ability to migrate hard-core left ideology into effective real world change is limited, to say the least. You are vastly exaggerating their true impact.
When one is referring to either the "far right" or the "far left" we are, of course, not referring to the great mass of the population. However, just as people are concerned about the small number of "alt right" people or "hard right" folks, it is just as important to be guarded against the far left. Neither is a myth. Neither is irrelevant.

The thing with the far left is that they are actually making gains. The far right never gets sympathy from the middle, or the mainstream media, and rightly so. But, the far left gets a pass (as we saw on CNN and other news outlets when the far left committed acts of extreme violence in "defense" against what they say are hateful ideas....), and the far left is making inroads into legislation with hate speech legislation, pronoun legislation, Title IX inroads against due process of law, etc. So, while I admit that referring to the far left is not the same thing as referring to left of center moderates, I would not go so far as to say I "exaggerate the true impact of the far left." I think the far left is something to be concerned about. The postmodernist, leftist ideologies are very destructive, and when they claim the right to use violence against ideas (as they do), people should take notice.

People should also be vigilant against the far right, racism - and fascist ideologies. But, it has to be recognized that these are not mainstream views either, and not only are they not mainstream, but the government, politicians, the public, the media, businesses and employers, etc., have about a zero tolerance rule for far right garbage. However, there is quite a lot of tolerance for far left garbage. You can see antifa douchebags burning down businesses, smashing windows, and assaulting/battering people with clubs, and the media will downplay it, and if possible blame it on the "right wingt demonstrators."
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:50 pm

L'Emmerdeur wrote:Milo's Alt-right Trollapalooza seems to have crashed and burned without any help from those anti-fa terrorist bastards.

'Yiannopoulos’ Planned ‘Free Speech Week’ Appears To Implode Spectacularly'
Milo Yiannopoulos’ much-hyped plan to yet again rile the University of California at Berkeley’s campus by inviting a host of provocative far-right icons for four days of public speeches appears to have imploded in spectacular fashion.

According to new reports in Vanity Fair and Mediaite, after student organizers failed to file the proper paperwork to reserve university buildings, and after Yiannopolous apparently neglected to notify some of the scheduled speakers that the event was even happening, the affair has been reduced to a Saturday press conference in San Francisco.

“Free Speech Week” seems to have been something of a fiasco from the start.

[continues]
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:52 pm

Forty Two wrote:The postmodernist, leftist ideologies are very destructive...
Your biases are showing again. The extreme-right is literally destructive.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:54 pm

Forty Two wrote:However, there is quite a lot of tolerance for far left garbage. You can see antifa douchebags burning down businesses, smashing windows, and assaulting/battering people with clubs, and the media will downplay it, and if possible blame it on the "right wingt demonstrators."
I doubt that very much. Most of your media there is right-wing (including CNN), and centre-left at best. You need some perspective.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Hermit » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:09 pm

Forty Two wrote:The thing with the far left is that they are actually making gains.
Which explains how Trump became your president. Those hornet's nests of rabid leftists at Breitbart, Infowars and dozens of others are a real problem.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Animavore » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:13 pm

Someone's reading too much InfoWars.
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:24 pm

pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:The postmodernist, leftist ideologies are very destructive...
Your biases are showing again. The extreme-right is literally destructive.
I would say so, yes. The extreme right is destructive. However, the extreme left is destructive.

Image
CNN published an article Friday titled, "Unmasking the leftist Antifa movement: Activists seek peace through violence," but the next day changed the headline to exclude any mention of the group using violence.

Reporters Sara Ganim and Chris Welch took an in-depth look at antifa, which refers to an anti-fascist, leftist movement that sometimes uses violence in protests to further its goals. Members of antifa earlier this month protested a gathering of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., where a white supremacist is charged with killing one and injuring others with his vehicle. During the recent antifa protests, at least two reporters were physically assaulted by antifa members; one antifa group blamed the reporter for filming them without their permission.
http://freebeacon.com/culture/cnn-chang ... -violence/



“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:40 am

:lol:
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by rainbow » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:53 pm

Forty Two wrote: However, the extreme left is destructive.
Image
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:55 pm

:lol:

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:06 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvin wrote:
Forty Two wrote:The postmodernist, leftist ideologies are very destructive...
Your biases are showing again. The extreme-right is literally destructive.
I would say so, yes. The extreme right is destructive. However, the extreme left is destructive.

Image
CNN published an article Friday titled, "Unmasking the leftist Antifa movement: Activists seek peace through violence," but the next day changed the headline to exclude any mention of the group using violence.

Reporters Sara Ganim and Chris Welch took an in-depth look at antifa, which refers to an anti-fascist, leftist movement that sometimes uses violence in protests to further its goals. Members of antifa earlier this month protested a gathering of white supremacists in Charlottesville, Va., where a white supremacist is charged with killing one and injuring others with his vehicle. During the recent antifa protests, at least two reporters were physically assaulted by antifa members; one antifa group blamed the reporter for filming them without their permission.
http://freebeacon.com/culture/cnn-chang ... -violence/



I'm sorry, but can you point out the "postmodernists" in those images? :think:
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by Forty Two » Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:45 pm

No, but I can point out the extreme leftists.

What's the difference whether they associate themselves with postmodernism? My references to postmodernism is not to pin a label on specific people, but to discuss the foundational underpinnings of today's leftist thought. The left is rife with postmodernism, because it serves as the underlying base for their ideology -- (a) there is no truth - truth is only about power dynamics, (b) spurning of logic and reason, (c) collective ownership, (d) disillusionment with modernism (principles of the Enlightenment), (e) equating all religions as equally valid, etc.

It's postmodernism, for example, that underpins today's trend that allows people to say that there is no such thing as biological sex, other than as a social construct, or to say that people can "identify" as different sexes or races. There is no truth - only opinion, and truth is governed by the power struggle between "classes" of people (no longer in the economic sense, but now in the racial, sexual, and ethnic sense). Beauty is just an invention - it's just a social construct - whether Salma Hayek or Rosie O'Donnell are hot pieces of ass or not is purely a function of whether society is governed by the white, male patriarchy, or not.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:57 pm

Forty Two wrote:No, but I can point out the extreme leftists.

What's the difference whether they associate themselves with postmodernism?
Because you said: "The postmodernist, leftist ideologies are very destructive...". Your pictures don't seem to be of dorky arts students.
My references to postmodernism is not to pin a label on specific people, but to discuss the foundational underpinnings of today's leftist thought. The left is rife with postmodernism, because it serves as the underlying base for their ideology -- (a) there is no truth - truth is only about power dynamics, (b) spurning of logic and reason, (c) collective ownership, (d) disillusionment with modernism (principles of the Enlightenment), (e) equating all religions as equally valid, etc.
What the fuck does that have to do with Antifa?? Antifa are anti-fascist. Unless fascism is "pre-modernism" or whatever the opposite of post-modernism is...
It's postmodernism, for example, that underpins today's trend that allows people to say that there is no such thing as biological sex, other than as a social construct, or to say that people can "identify" as different sexes or races. There is no truth - only opinion, and truth is governed by the power struggle between "classes" of people (no longer in the economic sense, but now in the racial, sexual, and ethnic sense). Beauty is just an invention - it's just a social construct - whether Salma Hayek or Rosie O'Donnell are hot pieces of ass or not is purely a function of whether society is governed by the white, male patriarchy, or not.
What does any of that have to do with Antifa?? :think:
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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:39 pm

The author of the article below thinks there are some lessons to be learned from the failure of Mr. Yiannopoulos's most recent grab for attention.

'Milo’s “Free Speech Week” was a flop: Here’s how to beat the alt-right'
Milo Yiannopoulos' efforts at creating chaos at the University of California at Berkeley have ended with a whimper, not with the bang he was clearly anticipating. It's possible, even likely, that Yiannopoulos was planning all along to have Free Speech Week, his grandiose-sounding Berkeley event, implode so he could blame the university and paint himself as a victim of leftist censorship. Or maybe he and the supposed student group he was working with, the Berkeley Patriot, were too lazy and inept to put this event together, so Yiannopoulos opportunistically tried to spin it as the left-wing speech police in action.

Either way, Milo's stunt failed. Very few people showed up. Yiannopoulos created a few photo ops and then he got bored and wandered away from a mostly-empty Sproul Plaza, the Berkeley campus' most famous protest zone. Apparently the whole thing petered out in less than half an hour. Milo and his army of trolls failed to generate the dramatic clash between fired-up "alt-righters" and confrontational antifa activists that would have allowed right-wingers to paint themselves as victims of the violent and censorious left.

...

There's a lot to be learned from this event, in terms of preventing future efforts by the hard right to create a victimization narrative that, like it or not, is effective at winning sympathy from people who might otherwise not be keen on the misogyny-and-racism message that people like Yiannopoulos peddle. Here are the three big takeaways.

1) The "alt-right" has nothing of value to say, and the quickest way to prove that is to let them say it. I used to have more sympathy for the no-platform movement. They are right to believe that reasoned debate doesn't actually dissuade people from buying into bad arguments in favor of bigotry, a truth the people making glib calls to "answer bad speech with more speech" tend to overlook.

It also become clear, however, that people like Yiannopoulos have really bad and dumb arguments that do little to win over fence-sitters, and therefore they need the "censorship" narrative in order to sell themselves. The debate over whether or not to allow Yiannopoulos a platform makes his ideas seem exciting and dangerous, exactly as the parental notification stickers on hip-hop records in the '90s often helped sell the product.

When Berkeley decided to deprive Yiannopoulos of that narrative and let him speak on Sproul Plaza, however, what quickly became clear was he had nothing interesting to say. He's a two-bit hack and rapidly gave up trying to pretend otherwise, leaving after a short speech.

...

2) Ignoring these people and hoping they will go away doesn't work. While it's critical not to meet the "alt-right" with either censorship or violence, both of which let them play the victim, that shouldn't be confused with ignoring them. People like Yiannopoulos are trying to start a neo-fascist movement, with a strong focus on recruiting young men. That's dangerous, even if they are a bunch of clowns, and needs to be met with resistance.

...

3) The best strategy is non-engagement, coupled with offering an attractive alternative. Arguing with right-wingers doesn't work. As the saying goes, you can't argue someone out of a position they didn't argue themselves into. Confrontation, especially violent confrontation, just lets them play the victim. Formal debate, by giving bigotry the form and social function of actual academic discourse, can often lull people into giving the "alt-right's" ideas more credence than they deserve.

What Berkeley did right was to minimize Yiannopoulos' attempts to attract argument, debate and especially confrontation. Instead, the university got ahead of the story, publicizing their efforts to ensure free speech on campus. That in turn made sure that the media responses to Yiannopoulos' victim pose were amused and mocking. This helped model a way for people to oppose him and his more overtly frightening allies without giving him the conflict he wants. Laughing at him was both good fun and a better way to to declaw Milo than violent confrontation could ever offer.

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Re: "Alt-right" Parading Ignorance, Stupidity, Malice, Etc.

Post by DaveDodo007 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:38 am

Forty Two wrote:No, but I can point out the extreme leftists.

What's the difference whether they associate themselves with postmodernism? My references to postmodernism is not to pin a label on specific people, but to discuss the foundational underpinnings of today's leftist thought. The left is rife with postmodernism, because it serves as the underlying base for their ideology -- (a) there is no truth - truth is only about power dynamics, (b) spurning of logic and reason, (c) collective ownership, (d) disillusionment with modernism (principles of the Enlightenment), (e) equating all religions as equally valid, etc.

It's postmodernism, for example, that underpins today's trend that allows people to say that there is no such thing as biological sex, other than as a social construct, or to say that people can "identify" as different sexes or races. There is no truth - only opinion, and truth is governed by the power struggle between "classes" of people (no longer in the economic sense, but now in the racial, sexual, and ethnic sense). Beauty is just an invention - it's just a social construct - whether Salma Hayek or Rosie O'Donnell are hot pieces of ass or not is purely a function of whether society is governed by the white, male patriarchy, or not.
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