Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Locked

Whose Hard Brexit do you want to get shafted by?

Poll ended at Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:01 pm

Labour's Hard Brexit!
0
No votes
Tory Hard Brexit
1
13%
Cheese or bacon or something
7
88%
 
Total votes: 8

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:57 am

The remainers whining about the Brexit vote is a joke.

The referendum was conducted under the adversarial system, just like your court case.
One side puts the strongest possible case for, and the other puts the strongest possible case against.

It's ludicrous to expect them to be even handed, that's not how it works.
The remain campaign were lying their heads off, just the same.
It's up to the voter to choose which pack of exaggerations and lies to favour with their vote.
And that's what they did, and I don't think they were fooled by either side.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:10 am

It was only advisory. In any other country such a change would demand a two thirds majority. Only 27% of the population voted to leave.
Why such haste? Simple the 1% in the UK were going to get caught by the new EU tax laws on offshore accounts so it was decided to try and destroy the EU (which was fully backed by America and Russia but for different reasons) but it backfired and now they are simply fucked. No plan no nothing just floundering around. Now with the CA revelations there are murmurs it might be cancelled which would suit May and co very well. The UK will be in transition when the new tax laws come into operation so they are going to get caught anyway so they might as well stay in now. A bigger mess you could not imagine.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:36 am

You're straying into the world of conspiracy theory now. I hear it's lovely in there.

Actually it's all going quite well, and all the forecasts of doom and gloom are showing up as bollocks.

The billions in exit fees are now just the normal payments that we would have paid anyway, in the two years of extra membership. So it's not money for nothing, which the public would have kicked against. And the EU fat cats get their money, so they can carry on paying each other fat salaries for two more years.

The pound has remained strong and steady since the initial panics. In spite of claims of imminent parity and worse, with the Euro.
The loonies in Northern Ireland have two extra years to dwell on the fact that they want no hard border, and also no customs checks between NI and the rest of the UK. Two mutually exclusive things that can't both happen.
In reality, they have two extra years to soften up their electorate to accept the one part of the equation they will have to ditch. (my guess is there will be checks coming from NI to the mainland, but they will be kept fairly invisible). Customs checks can be carried out anywhere, without disturbing the paddies.

If they had listened to me, it would be simple. Everyone in the UK would have ID cards, and anyone without could be checked wherever they choose. You could put tags on the non-british vehicles and check them wherever you like.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:18 pm

It must be nice to be in LaLa land. :smoke:

Just keep taking the Brexit meds and you will not feel a thing as you go off the Brexit cliff.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 13528
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Egal wie dicht du bist, Goethe war Dichter
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by rainbow » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:40 am

I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
BArF−4

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:55 am

:lol:

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:50 am

Image

Twitter images dont show.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:33 pm

Parliamentary committee into #FAKENEWS accused of pedaling #FAKENEWS by the Brexit campaigner identified as a pedaler of #FAKENEWS.


Fake news inquiry raises concerns over targeting of voters in Brexit referendum.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:02 am

Each Brexit scenario will leave Britain worse off, study finds


Each of the government’s four Brexit scenarios, including a bespoke deal, would leave Britain poorer and cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of pounds each week, analysis has shown.

The study for the thinktank Global Future by Jonathan Portes, a professor of economics and public policy at King’s College, London, found that a bespoke deal, the government’s preferred option, would have a net negative fiscal impact of about £40bn a year.

Polling commissioned for study by Populus, which is run by David Cameron’s former strategy chief Andrew Cooper, found that voters, even those who backed Brexit, feared that leaving the European Union would come at “too high a price”.

...

The analysis came as the government braced itself for defeats in parliament on Wednesday, including over its plans to take the UK out of the customs union, as the EU withdrawal bill returns to the House of Lords.

Nine senior Conservatives, including two former cabinet ministers, are among those who have put their names to a series of cross-party amendments aimed at persuading Theresa May to rethink her position.

The amendment giving parliament a vote on staying in a customs union, which is almost certain to pass, would mean MPs will get a say on the contentious issue despite the government’s efforts to kick it into the long grass. The only way the prime minister will be able to avoid defeat will be to offer significant concessions...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard
Ministers could IGNORE Brexit Bill amendment demanding UK stays in EU customs union as government braces for defeat in Lords


Ministers could simply ignore a Brexit Bill amendment set to be passed by peers today that demands the UK stays in the EU customs union.

The government does not believe changes due to be voted on by the House of Lords later will have any significant impact - even if they are unable to overturn them in the Commons.   

One Cabinet minister told MailOnline they would be able to 'live with' the amendment to the flagship legislation and it would not prevent Theresa May fulfilling her pledge to avoid any customs union with the EU

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... dment.html
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue May 01, 2018 11:07 pm

PM expected to delay customs decision to appease key Brexiters

Theresa May will attempt to head off a rebellion of her Brexit inner cabinet and prevent key leave-supporting ministers from resigning by delaying a final decision on her “customs partnership”model.

The prime minister is expected to keep both of Downing Street’s options for a future customs arrangement with the European Union on the table at least for now as the 11-strong sub-committee meet for talks on Wednesday.

...

One remain-supporting cabinet minister told the Guardian earlier that they expected the prime minister to make a “big push” for her preferred option at the meeting, but Whitehall officials suggested she would stop just short of ditching the alternative.

Brexiter sources claimed that the prime minister had been told eight times by civil servants that her preferred option, which is backed by her top Brexit

No 10 sources said the prime minister had no plans to “boot out” one customs union option immediately and that officials would continue working on both – but she risks a tense showdown with key Brexiters...


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... _clipboard
This just highlights the fantasy-land that the Tory government find themselves inhabiting over Brexit. May wants to keep 'on the table' two options to maintain the UK customs relationship with the EU (necessary to avoid a hard Irish border), both of which EU negotiators have described as impractical and un-workable. They're basically arguing over who is going to be in charge of the deckchairs on the Titanic.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed May 02, 2018 7:29 am

Yes it is quite amazing. Both Barnier and Tusc have said they are not acceptable but they keep on coming back with them.
The only permanent solution is reunification within the EU.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by mistermack » Wed May 02, 2018 12:20 pm

We always have the option of no deal and walking away.

The transition deal is of big financial benefit to the EU mandarins, and the Tories know that.

If they want to lose those billions, and impose a hard border in Ireland, they can, but there will be major pandemonium in the EU when it comes to paying the bills.
In Ulster, it's the EU that needs a border, not the UK. We can afford to leave it open.

I don't think the Republic want the job of policing a hard border.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Scot Dutchy » Wed May 02, 2018 12:38 pm

If you impose a hard border you will be breaking a UN recognised peace treaty. You need a hard border if you walked away because of WTO rules. You cant afford to leave it open. Either way you will end up here in the Hague in Carnegie's building called the International Court of Justice.

Image

I can assure you that you can forget making any FTA with anyone. You have no idea of international law do you.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 37953
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed May 02, 2018 12:43 pm

An open border without a customs arrangement would be unacceptable to both the EU and the UK. It would effectively be a smuggler's paradise. A hard border would bring back the troubles. It's a dilemma that's hard to square either way - unless NI votes for reunification with the south, and the DUP wouldn't even let such a vote take place.
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
Rum
Absent Minded Processor
Posts: 37285
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:25 pm
Location: South of the border..though not down Mexico way..
Contact:

Re: Hard Brexit or Hard Brexit

Post by Rum » Wed May 02, 2018 1:02 pm

It would be great if the government informed the public that as the Irish border issue is unresolvable we will have another referendum on leaving. I think 'remain' would win.

Sadly It seems highly unlikely they will do that.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 37 guests