We need to talk about Donald: the cursing & swearing thread

[Forty Two]

Kristin Beck, transgender Navy SEAL hero: 'Let's meet face to face and you tell me I'm not worthy'

http://uk.businessinsider.com/kristin-b ... &r=US&IR=T

That's asking a bit much, Kristen. You're talking about an honourless, spineless coward who doesn't have the guts to visit blue states and said he won't go to Britain until the people are more welcoming of him because he knows he'll have to face crowds of people who think he's a useless, morally bankrupt fool who should never have been put in charge of giving oranges at half time at a rugby match, let alone a whole country.

Well, sure, but Beck's sex is male and Beck was physically male while in the Navy. And, Beck only transitioned after leaving the Navy.

I don't support a "ban" on trans people serving in the military, because that would exclude people who are sexually males but feel female and want to call their gender female or nonbinary or fluid or whatever.

That being said, this is a difficult topic to talk about because it engenders such anger, and the language used is ponderous and almost impenetrably vague. There are some issues with a Navy SEAL with gender dysphoria needing to spend time on counseling and transitioning and then going through hormone treatments and surgeries to try to change genders. A Navy SEAL has to spend most of their days training, and training hard. It's not really any different than someone who is a Navy SEAL but has any other commitment or personal issue which causes them to to not be able to attend to their duties. Just because those other issues are medical or psychological doesn't mean they can remain Navy SEALs.

I guess in principle I'd say that in a perfect world women and trans people would be allowed to serve if they can meet the normal requirements. However, it seems that no matter what happens, in order to include women, we have to change physical standards, change barracks arrangements, and modify bathroom arrangements, change the way drill sergeants handle basic training, etc. And, to accommodate trans people, suddenly to be treated equally we have to pay for counseling, psychological and psychiatric help, medical interventions, hormone treatments, etc., and then suddenly men referring to each other insultingly in the locker-room manner becomes an issue of harassment and such.

[Forty Two]

This is really not the issue. It's not that people are afraid of being in the bathroom with trans people, qua trans people. It's that people are afraid that if males are allowed in the ladies rooms that some males who are not trans, but are rather creepers, will get in the bathroom and creep people out, or be a danger. I.e., guys can say they're women and just go in the ladies' room.

I'm not suggesting this is a big problem, but it is a different issue than people thinking it's the person who is actually gender dysphoric and trying to convert to the female gender being the danger. The danger is the guy who is not really trans but is using that as a ruse to get in the ladies' room.

I think that number is very small, but I think that most women that I know would not be too keen on apparent males walking in and taking dumps in the ladies' room, or standing around. I've seen incidents where there are complaints from women that a "male" was in the ladies room. However, that's assuming the apparent male's gender, of course. One can't tell by appearance what is a male gender or female gender, we're told.

Anyway, the solution is pretty much inevitable that bathrooms are just going to have to be over time redesigned and standards changed so that they can be unisex. Urinals are going to go away, and bathrooms are going to be unisex with only stalls, and the stalls will be more private. Many men's rooms nowadays have stall doors where the gaps are huge and the doors are short, and there is space open between the floor and the door. I've even seen where there are no doors and guys just shit with the door open.

Most urinals in men's rooms offer little to no privacy, often with no barriers to vision between urinals - men stand shoulder to shoulder with their dicks out. If someone wants to look they can look. I've been to sports arenas where the men's room entails an area that is just a trough all along the wall, with a pipe with holes in it spraying water onto the tile wall and into the trough. Guys just walk up to the trough, which has no separate units, and piss side by side, sometimes no space between the shoulders of guys urinating all along the perimeter.

A lot of redesign will be necessary to make bathroom's unisex, but that's the way it will go, I think, with new construction. And, another option will be to provide a family or unisex option - like one small bathroom in addition to the separate sex bathroom, that accommodates those who want a unisex bathroom.

[Animavore]

Trump could make up the entire cost of having transgenders serving in the military by skipping one trip to Mar-A-Lago.

http://www.inquisitr.com/4391873/trump- ... de21677fc8

[Animavore]

[Forty Two]

I'm puzzled by this transgender ban thing. It seems pointless. There aren't 10 to 20,000 in the American military. There's about 2,000 to maybe as high as 10,000. 20,000 would be 1.3 percent of the total military, when only about 0.3% of the general population is transgender. If the number of transgender in the military is equal to the general population, then an estimate would be 4,000 or so.

I suppose it might be higher than the general population, but that would seem to be counterintuitive. I would expect, given the antipathy of the military to even being homosexual (until very recently), that transgender persons would not be heading to the military in greater numbers than nontransgender people. I would expect the rate to be lower than the gen-pop.

I don't know how many are transgender, and the military says it has no records. I don't get it. Why not just ignore gender anyway, and go with sex. If a person is of the male sex, they follow the rules for men. If the person is female sex, then they follow the rules for females. If we go by gender, then some 6'2" male athlete can join the military, declare female gender, and carry a lighter pack, run fewer miles, and a female who comes out as trans male would be running with the men, doing the male number of pullups, and carrying the male designated pack.

[Animavore]

Trump and his cabal of cartoon villains attacking water next.

https://thinkprogress.org/trump-adminis ... 07aa096526

[pErvinalia]

[Hermit]

This is really not the issue.

Yes, it really is. Look up Dog-whistle politics. Trump is saying one thing and meaning another just like Nixon's "War on Drugs" was really a war on blacks. I don't particularly care if those policies are motivated by personal prejudice, a perceived need to pander to popular prejudice or both. They are pernicious in any case.

What is more, the cost of transgender soldiers add to the military budget is laughably insignificant. The US military spends five times more on buying and dispensing Viagra.

[Forty Two]

To some people it may be a dog whistle, but there is a segment of the population that does have a concern that men would be permitted to go into the ladies' room. There is a large number of women who aren't too keen on it. The response tends to be something to the effect of "these aren't men, they're women" (along the lines of the agenda being pushed that being a man or woman has nothing to do with being sexually and biologically male or female).

Certainly, if someone is truly transgender, then that's fine. However, the concern of some is that the ability to use the bathroom of one's choice means that some non-trans men will opt to go into the ladies' room. I doubt that will be a very large number of men, but it can't really be hand-waved away either, that there is no way to outwardly tell if a person is male gender or female gender or other gender just by looking at them.

This is real conceptual issue that I have with the trans movement right now. They want to say that having a cock and balls doesn't make you male, and that feminine things and masculine things are purely arbitrary and do not indicate gender or sex. Yet, to transition from male to female, it involves wearing dresses and screwing on tits and chopping off balls. If "feeling female" makes you want to wear dresses and have a vagina, then surely it must be said that those things have something to do with being female? It gets very muddled.

[Sean Hayden]

If the risk isn't greater than it is now, then yes, they'll just have to get over it.

We may all need to get over our bathroom weirdness. Not too long ago I went into the restroom and walked right past a woman who must have been waiting for her son at a stall. I didn't realize it was a woman until after I started to pee. I looked back over my shoulder and sure enough it had been a woman. I just thought oh well, we'll get through this together, a shared awkward moment.

[Hermit]

To some people it may be a dog whistle, but there is a segment of the population that does have a concern that men would be permitted to go into the ladies' room. There is a large number of women who aren't too keen on it. The response tends to be something to the effect of "these aren't men, they're women" (along the lines of the agenda being pushed that being a man or woman has nothing to do with being sexually and biologically male or female).

Certainly, if someone is truly transgender, then that's fine. However, the concern of some is that the ability to use the bathroom of one's choice means that some non-trans men will opt to go into the ladies' room. I doubt that will be a very large number of men, but it can't really be hand-waved away either, that there is no way to outwardly tell if a person is male gender or female gender or other gender just by looking at them.

This is real conceptual issue that I have with the trans movement right now. They want to say that having a cock and balls doesn't make you male, and that feminine things and masculine things are purely arbitrary and do not indicate gender or sex. Yet, to transition from male to female, it involves wearing dresses and screwing on tits and chopping off balls. If "feeling female" makes you want to wear dresses and have a vagina, then surely it must be said that those things have something to do with being female? It gets very muddled.

Are you seriously suggesting that cost and toilet issues are at the heart of Trump's latest policy announcement?

[Sean Hayden]

Are you seriously suggesting that Americans aren't concerned about toilet issues? It's currently a big deal in Texas.

Also, didn't he say he was taking the advice of experts? :buwahahaha:

[Svartalf]

yoilet issues? toilet humor more like...

[Animavore]

Head of boy scouts apologises over Trump.

http://time.com/4876705/donald-trump-bo ... ee-speech/

[Hermit]

Are you seriously suggesting that Americans aren't concerned about toilet issues? It's currently a big deal in Texas.

No. Not even in jest.

Why do you ask?