General Election UK, June 8th...

[mistermack]

I dispute Mr May's claim of an absolute Conservative mandate to proceed with Brexit in any way her government sees fit. For one, none of the Leave campaigns talked about the nature or manner of withdraw, the level or scope for compromise or post-Brexit cooperation

This is complete bollox.
If the remainers had won the vote, would people be griping that the remainers didn't vote for this or that kind of remain? Hard or soft remain?
Did people vote for remain, but with less immigration, or no court of justice?

No, the vote was in or out. Not a bit in or a bit out. The details are left to the politicians, and they are elected to do that job.

We will be out, and the deal will be done by Mrs. May. And that's democracy.

[Svartalf]

yeah, democracy, stultocracy more like, if I may commit the barbarism of coining a neologism combining Greek and Latin... or just elithiocracy... but I prefer stulto...

[Brian Peacock]

I dispute Mr May's claim of an absolute Conservative mandate to proceed with Brexit in any way her government sees fit. For one, none of the Leave campaigns talked about the nature or manner of withdraw, the level or scope for compromise or post-Brexit cooperation

This is complete bollox.
If the remainers had won the vote, would people be griping that the remainers didn't vote for this or that kind of remain? Hard or soft remain?
Did people vote for remain, but with less immigration, or no court of justice?

No, the vote was in or out. Not a bit in or a bit out. The details are left to the politicians, and they are elected to do that job.

We will be out, and the deal will be done by Mrs. May. And that's democracy.

Do want to retain the UK's trading relationship with the EU?
Do you want to maintain intelligence and defence cooperation?
Do you want UK citizens living in EU countries to keep hold of the rights and freedom they've come to expect?
Did you vote for any of that, or was it just a 'one out, all out' kind of thing?

[Hermit]

62.5% of the electorate did not vote for Leave

...and 65.3% of the electorate did not vote for Stay.

The same non-argument as yours is trotted out about the recent US presidential election: 74.9% of the total electorate did not vote for Trump. A-fucking-mazing, huh? How the fuck did he become president? And yes, that one affects everyone equally as well.

Let's just stick to actual votes, shall we?

[Svartalf]

b leh, On may 7 I really think I'm gonna cast a blank, neither of the canidates is worth voting for, unless it were a vote to ostracize them, Ancient Athens style.

[Hermit]

Do want to retain the UK's trading relationship with the EU?
Do you want to maintain intelligence and defence cooperation?
Do you want UK citizens living in EU countries to keep hold of the rights and freedom they've come to expect?
Did you vote for any of that, or was it just a 'one out, all out' kind of thing?

Provided you can read the ballot paper, that is easy to work out.

[Svartalf]

So all out, but I sure hope we negociate a deal to keep our SouthWest brits, they are repopulating areas that would otherwise turn to deserts

[mistermack]

Do want to retain the UK's trading relationship with the EU?
Do you want to maintain intelligence and defence cooperation?
Do you want UK citizens living in EU countries to keep hold of the rights and freedom they've come to expect?
Did you vote for any of that, or was it just a 'one out, all out' kind of thing?

I didn't vote.
I didn't then, and don't now, believe that it should be decided by a referendum.
The public are to busy to research it, and too fucking stupid to understand it all.

If we were to come out, it should have been one of the parties policy, in a general election.
If no party wants to stand on it, then we should not have had a referendum.
We pay politicians to make decisions, aided by a huge well-paid civil service.

I personally think there should have been a third choice on the ballot paper.
Don't know.

And the don't knows would probably have won.
But like I said, the choice was in or out. Out won, and Theresa May will win the election.
And that's democracy. Maybe too much democracy. But it's done, and it's up to the ones who win the election (Conservatives) to sort out the best deal.

Humans are apes too.

What d'you mean, "too" ?

[Scot Dutchy]

The trouble is Leave is on multiple levels and Remain is on one. That is what was forgotten.

[JimC]

The trouble is Leave is on multiple levels and Remain is on one. That is what was forgotten.

Or that Leave had multiple implications, the troublesome details of which are just becoming apparent.

[Scot Dutchy]

Just

[JimC]

Some of the implications were clearly seen by those with a certain amount of native intelligence before the vote, but their analysis was ignored for emotional reasons by the hoi polloi...

[Brian Peacock]

62.5% of the electorate did not vote for Leave

...and 65.3% of the electorate did not vote for Stay.

The same non-argument as yours is trotted out about the recent US presidential election: 74.9% of the total electorate did not vote for Trump. A-fucking-mazing, huh? How the fuck did he become president? And yes, that one affects everyone equally as well.

Let's just stick to actual votes, shall we?

Indeed. However, I did say: "I know that the voters who turn up to vote decide elections," and "I'm not saying that Leave didn't accrue the majority of votes cast". But the point I was making is that Mrs May cannot claim a resounding endorsement of her government's policies (particularly as the government campaiged to remain) and her painting of the vote as a Tory victory in a clear choice between Tory policy and the policy of the other parties is weak at best, and perhaps more than a little disingenuous considering she personally campaigned for Remain. I also disagree with her idea that now that the referendum has led to Article 50 and inevitable withdraw then the Tories should be given a free hand to do whatever it is they want for whatever reasons they can be bothered to share with the rest of us.

For example, we could leave the EU yet remain committed to securing the status of UK-resident EU citizens in return for securing the status of EU-resident UK citizens, or retain trading links and market access through a Norwegian type arrangement. Alas, the only game in town at the moment is the so-called hard-Brexit option. And the reasons we're getting as to why this will be a good thing are i) because less foreigners, and ii) some other reasons it would be foolish to let on about.

[Hermit]

62.5% of the electorate did not vote for Leave

...and 65.3% of the electorate did not vote for Stay.

The same non-argument as yours is trotted out about the recent US presidential election: 74.9% of the total electorate did not vote for Trump. A-fucking-mazing, huh? How the fuck did he become president? And yes, that one affects everyone equally as well.

Let's just stick to actual votes, shall we?

Indeed. However, I did say: "I know that the voters who turn up to vote decide elections," and "I'm not saying that Leave didn't accrue the majority of votes cast". But the point I was making is that Mrs May cannot claim a resounding endorsement of her government's policies (particularly as the government campaiged to remain) and her painting of the vote as a Tory victory in a clear choice between Tory policy and the policy of the other parties is weak at best, and perhaps more than a little disingenuous considering she personally campaigned for Remain. I also disagree with her idea that now that the referendum has led to Article 50 and inevitable withdraw then the Tories should be given a free hand to do whatever it is they want for whatever reasons they can be bothered to share with the rest of us.

For example, we could leave the EU yet remain committed to securing the status of UK-resident EU citizens in return for securing the status of EU-resident UK citizens, or retain trading links and market access through a Norwegian type arrangement. Alas, the only game in town at the moment is the so-called hard-Brexit option. And the reasons we're getting as to why this will be a good thing are i) because less foreigners, and ii) some other reasons it would be foolish to let on about.

Yes, yes, all reasonable considerations. What is not reasonable is to observe that 62.5% of the electorate did not vote for Leave without mentioning in the same breath that 65.3% of the electorate did not vote for Stay. Not doing so stinks of misuse of statistics. Doing so makes them an almost entirely moot point. So let's stick to the figures that count, please: Almost as many people voted for Stay as for Leave (which on its own is sufficient reason why May cannot claim a resounding endorsement of her government's policies) and 27% of the electorate did not vote at all.

Unfortunately she will get a resounding endorsement of her government's policies in June.

[Brian Peacock]

Theresa May wants Britain to "lead the world in preventing tourism," she said today in her first embarrassing slip up of the general election campaign.

Speaking during a campaign visit to Wales, the prime minister said she wanted "to strike deals across the world for trading, for exporting British goods and services," but then added: "We want to lead the world in preventing tourism...

http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-m ... ism-2017-4