The US Healthcare Mass Debate

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Forty Two
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Forty Two » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Tero wrote:Or the votes. If he had expanded Medicare and funded that, the patriotic Americans would have shot him for being a socialist.
Why not just raise the income threshold for Medicaid and leave it at that? Then the needy would get their health insurance, and those making enough to pay for their own would pay for their own. Everyone under 18 years old was covered under CHIP already, if they didn't have other coverage.

There is a limit to what you can do, of course, as Bernie Sanders said: "If we expanded Medicaid [to] everybody. Give everybody a Medicaid card—we would be spending such an astronomical sum of money that, you know, we would bankrupt the nation."
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:25 pm

Funds. He would have had to raise taxes or borrow. The Freedom Caucus would have screamed about it for the remaining six years of his term.

Presidents only have 2 years to achieve things. Whether 4 or 8 years in power. The rest of the time is just acting presidential and checks and balances.

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:55 am

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:You've missed the point. Lak is saying it's silly having to pay for things like sex reassignment and maternity if you will never need them. For some reason the option to opt out of those things doesn't exist in the US. It does here in our private insurance sector.
That's called premium loading. Like inflating the coat of coverage by forcing Dutch policy holders to take out volcano insurance.
No it does not. What in the hell are you talking about. We dont have a private insurance system. It is not a public one either. It is a hybrid; taking the best out both systems which is why it is not comprehended here. It is kept simple on purpose. It would cost too much time and money if everyone had a tailored policy.

Healthcare Systems: The Netherlands

https://healthpowerhouse.com/files/EHCI ... report.pdf

NHS leaders should read that.
Don't get your kilt in a twist, it was just a hypothetical example of premium loading. ;)
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Tue Jan 30, 2018 2:19 pm

This amounts to mostly a self insuring system. It could limit healthcare if you are given only one choice. But the Guvment did not fix it so they did:
Amazon.com Inc., Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. said they plan to collaborate on a way to offer health-care services to their U.S. employees more transparently and at a lower cost. The three companies plan to set up a new independent company “that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints,” according to a short statement on Tuesday.

The move sent shares of health-care stocks falling in early trading. Express Scripts Holding Co. and CVS Health Corp., which manage pharmacy benefits, slumped 6.7 percent and 5.5 percent, respectively. Health insurers Cigna Corp. and Anthem Inc. also dropped.

The health-care industry has been nervously eyeing the prospect of competition from Amazon for months. While the new company created by Amazon, Berkshire and JPMorgan would be for their U.S. staff only, this is the first big move by Amazon into the industry. The new collaboration could pressure profits for middlemen in the U.S. health-care supply chain.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -for-staff
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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:38 pm

We are still number one in Europe.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:39 pm

We are still number one in Europe. :cheer: This years report.

https://healthpowerhouse.com/files/EHCI ... report.pdf
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:44 pm

Tero wrote:This amounts to mostly a self insuring system. It could limit healthcare if you are given only one choice. But the Guvment did not fix it so they did:
Amazon.com Inc., Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway Inc. and JPMorgan Chase & Co. said they plan to collaborate on a way to offer health-care services to their U.S. employees more transparently and at a lower cost. The three companies plan to set up a new independent company “that is free from profit-making incentives and constraints,” according to a short statement on Tuesday.

The move sent shares of health-care stocks falling in early trading. Express Scripts Holding Co. and CVS Health Corp., which manage pharmacy benefits, slumped 6.7 percent and 5.5 percent, respectively. Health insurers Cigna Corp. and Anthem Inc. also dropped.

The health-care industry has been nervously eyeing the prospect of competition from Amazon for months. While the new company created by Amazon, Berkshire and JPMorgan would be for their U.S. staff only, this is the first big move by Amazon into the industry. The new collaboration could pressure profits for middlemen in the U.S. health-care supply chain.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -for-staff
That sounds fantastic. If Amazon et al can figure a way to offer better health care services at a lower cost, then such a system could be emulated by others

Competition is a great tool for cost reduction.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:45 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:We are still number one in Europe. :cheer: This years report.

https://healthpowerhouse.com/files/EHCI ... report.pdf
Awesome. The US should probably learn what it can from the Netherlands' system.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:47 pm

Healthcare with Amazon? You will never know when it will be withdrawn plus all the ads.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 30, 2018 3:48 pm

Tero wrote:Funds. He would have had to raise taxes or borrow. The Freedom Caucus would have screamed about it for the remaining six years of his term.

Presidents only have 2 years to achieve things. Whether 4 or 8 years in power. The rest of the time is just acting presidential and checks and balances.
He DID raise taxes, and he DID borrow. But, I guess that's o.k. since he lied through his teeth about it when the plan was sold to and rammed through Congress without any ability to read and debate its provisions. The Obama justice department argued, and won, that the provisions of Obamacare were a tax. National Freedom of Independent Business v. Sebelius. Of course, during the campaign to sell the bullshit to the American people, Kool and the Gang said that it was not a tax.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:05 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:Healthcare with Amazon? You will never know when it will be withdrawn plus all the ads.
But it will arrive in a drone quickly. Do yourself heart attack paddles!

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:10 pm

Tero wrote:
Scot Dutchy wrote:Healthcare with Amazon? You will never know when it will be withdrawn plus all the ads.
But it will arrive in a drone quickly. Do yourself heart attack paddles!
I thought IKEA would be doing that. A flat pack DIY operation room complete with robot.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:16 pm

”.... without any ability to read and debate its provisions.”

But the healthcare industry had read every word of it. Yey Capitalism!

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Forty Two » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:44 pm

Tero wrote:”.... without any ability to read and debate its provisions.”

But the healthcare industry had read every word of it. Yey Capitalism!
Don't confuse cronyism with capitalism. Steven Horwitz’s First Law of Political Economy: "no one hates capitalism more than capitalists."

I'm pro freedom, not pro business.

lAs Matt Ridley wrote in The Rational Optimist, "I hold no brief for large corporations, whose inefficiencies, complacencies, and anti-competitive tendencies often drive me as crazy as the next man. Like Milton Friedman, I notice that ‘business corporations in general are not defenders of free enterprise. On the contrary, they are one of the chief sources of danger.’ They are addicted to corporate welfare, they love regulations that erect barriers to entry to their small competitors, they yearn for monopoly and they grow flabby and inefficient with age."

Perhaps one might consider whether Obamacare was pro-capitalism, or pro-business.

What do you think?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: The US Healthcare Mass Debate

Post by Tero » Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:47 pm

”It's amazing that people still believe that there is some magical IT solution to our healthcare cost problem”
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