Evil

[Blind groper]

The question is : Does evil exist, and what is its nature?

Now, I know, as others on this forum know, that there is no personification of evil. No Satan. No devils. No demons, or anything else like that. I view evil as a quality of the human brain, and possessed by only some humans.

My opinion is that, yes, evil exists. There are people who behave in ways that can only be described as evil. Those people have to be called evil.

So what is evil? My view is that it is a willingness to do things that cause terrible harm to others. The reason for doing those horrible things may be selfishness, hunger for power, political ideology, religious, or simple unwillingness to actually think about what they are doing.

I would regard those in ISIS to be evil. Josef Stalin was evil. Even Alexander the Great was evil, because he carried out actions that killed and did great harm to thousands of people, out of his desire for power.

So what are your thoughts? Do you agree with me? Do you have a different idea of what evil is, or who is evil? What do you consider to be the greatest examples of true evil in the world today?

[JimC]

I think that the word itself is so bound up in old ideas of sin and damnation that using it is unwise. That does not mean that some people are not to be condemned for the great harm they cause others, or that they should not be brought to account in some way. It may even mean that their tendency to do harm is pretty well a fixed part of their character, with little hope of change.

However, the term itself is so loaded with the burden of religious sensibility and ancient views of human psychology that its use in a modern context is problematic.

[Blind groper]

I accept your point, Jim.
But I do not know of another word that carries the meaning. A person who can be described as evil is not someone performing some minor offense. It is major. In the sense that there is no other word carrying that degree of potency, I would not like to see us discarding it. The word is too useful.

[piscator]

What is ISIS doing that's new, that hasn't been done in just about every human conflict in history?
They're no doubt behaving disgracefully, and heaping dishonor upon Islam and themselves, but Buddhists set themselves on fire, and there's only a handful of societies that won't flay you for one thing or another. .

[JimC]

What is ISIS doing that's new, that hasn't been done in just about every human conflict in history?
Pull your head out of your ass. They're no doubt behaving disgracefully, and heaping dishonor upon Islam and themselves, but Buddhists set themselves on fire, and there's only a handful of societies that won't flay you if they get their hands on you.

What nonsense. For a start, it doesn't matter whether ISIS is doing stuff that has been done by barbaric societies of the past, its actions (whether we label them evil or not) go much further in deliberate harm to non-combatants than is usual in the current era. They deserve utter condemnation, and strong action to oppose them.

Buddhists setting fire to themselves is both a very rare phenomena, and one that does not deliberately harm others.

As for "there's only a handful of societies that won't flay you if they get their hands on you", that is simply utter bullshit. In fact it is the reverse - it is only a tiny handful in the modern world that will behave barbarically to others for no reason. And most of those are islamic.

[piscator]

OK then. Smite them for their naughtiness.

[Blind groper]

I agree with Jim.

The world today has come a long way from the medieval crap that existed 1000 years ago. With obvious exceptions, we no longer engage in torture, the death penalty, mutilation as punishment, duels to the death, wars of conquest, divine right of kings, and other such nonsense. Any group or individual who does any of these things I describe as 'evil'.

[Brian Peacock]

The question is : Does evil exist, and what is its nature?

It can only have a nature if it exists as a discrete thing. Can you show me that thing which is evil (rather than showing an evil thing)?

[JimC]

The question is : Does evil exist, and what is its nature?

It can only have a nature if it exists as a discrete thing. Can you show me that thing which is evil (rather than showing an evil thing)?

You are saying it can be an adjective, but not a noun...

(mind you, this is coming from a maths teacher, whose understanding of the delicate nuances of english grammar is widely scorned by english teachers...)

[Blind groper]

I think that where the word 'evil' is used as a noun, it is being used incorrectly. Someone might talk of 'a great evil', but that is simply an abbreviation for 'a great evil deed'.

[piscator]

What about Minime Evil? Do proper nouns count?

[Blind groper]

Eminem Live??

[piscator]

The BeeGees, with lasers, will have none of your anagrams, Wiki.

[Rum]

Seems to me that the people listed above and their like break through a barrier - a moral one perhaps - that most of us would not be capable of. In the first instance they seem to take a 'ends justified the means' approach but as the collateral damage mounts and mounts they perhaps become insensitive to the mass casualties they are inflicting in the name of their goal or destination. Perhaps in the end the goal stops mattering at all and they are themselves trapped into their 'evil' behaviour. It is hard to imagine the likes of Hitler or Stalin suddenly deciding their aims were not worth the cost.

[piscator]

Seems to me that the people listed above and their like break through a barrier - a moral one perhaps - that most of us would not be capable of.

Shiot. Every one of us is entirely capable of being part of some Fallujan or Somali mob desecrating a hated enemy's carcass, or burning a witch. It's merely an accident of birth you haven't had occasion, yet, to pluck some poor bastard's veins out of your teeth or howl with righteous delight as he burned alive. We all made our way from the worm.

In the first instance they seem to take a 'ends justified the means' approach but as the collateral damage mounts and mounts they perhaps become insensitive to the mass casualties they are inflicting in the name of their goal or destination. Perhaps in the end the goal stops mattering at all and they are themselves trapped into their 'evil' behaviour. It is hard to imagine the likes of Hitler or Stalin suddenly deciding their aims were not worth the cost.

Try to reason some Baptists out of their ideas, and you realize there has to be a more efficient way to get this particular bunch of Koranic manburners to lay off their religious interpretations...