Islamic State

[Blind groper]

Here in New Zealand, the decision has just been made to send a contingent of our rather limited armed forces to Iraq to assist in the fight against IS. My question to everyone is this. Is it justified to go to war against this entity?

Even though I am more pacifist than hawk, I am inclined to feel that, in this case, war is justified.

My father fought in WWII. In fact, he was among the first NZ volunteers, and spent four years on the battle field. He felt very strongly that opposing the evil of Hitler was the right thing to do. I cannot disagree with him.

Today, we face a group and a leader who is just as evil as Hitler. Sadly, like Hitler, in the early stages of his reign, he is also very successful, and his domain is growing.

Americans have the slogan about freedom and the blood of martyrs. This is not quite the same thing, but I see no way of stopping Islamic State from committing a whole lot more terrible deeds without opposing them militarily. Not that the military is the only possible action. There are many other things to be done, but soldiers and the air force will in the end be what makes the difference.

Do you agree?

[klr]

Yes, I think it's correct that all states that are able to contribute, do so according to their ability. Ultimately, it affects almost every country in some way.

[JimC]

Put them to the sword!

[piscator]

Here in New Zealand, the decision has just been made to send a contingent of our rather limited armed forces to Iraq to assist in the fight against IS. My question to everyone is this. Is it justified to go to war against this entity?

Even though I am more pacifist than hawk, I am inclined to feel that, in this case, war is justified.

...evil...evil...terrible deeds...



Do you agree?

Not on those grounds.

[pErvinalia]

It's hard to say. It's not as simple as good fighting evil. You've got the whole geopolitical thing and the history of colonialism and imperialism to throw into the mix as well. By my personal moral code, we should destroy this (ISIS) organisation. But marching on in to the holy(ish) land and shooting muzzies might not be the best thing to do. Something does need to be done, though. I just don't know what exactly that is. As a general rule, we need to somehow convince the Arab et al world to deal with the problem themselves.

[piscator]

It's hard to say. It's not as simple as good fighting evil. You've got the whole geopolitical thing and the history of colonialism and imperialism to throw into the mix as well. By my personal moral code, we should destroy this (ISIS) organisation. But marching on in to the holy(ish) land and shooting muzzies might not be the best thing to do. Something does need to be done, though. I just don't know what exactly that is. As a general rule, we need to somehow convince the Arab et al world to deal with the problem themselves.

We can make the whole platoon pay for Pvt. Pyle's continued fuckups...

[Blind groper]

To piscator who said "not on those grounds".

Perhaps you might elaborate.

To rEvo, who thinks we should send other arabs in to do the fighting.

Why do you think that arab killing arab is more 'moral' than westerner killing ISIS member?

[JimC]

To rEvo, who thinks we should send other arabs in to do the fighting.

Why do you think that arab killing arab is more 'moral' than westerner killing ISIS member?

No more moral, but no less moral either, and perhaps less likely to fire up the chant of "the west is killing muslims"...

[piscator]

To piscator who said "not on those grounds".

Perhaps you might elaborate.

Too much like the Holy War against the Crusader that Osama predicted. Besides, 10 years ago you were calling these guys "Freedom Fighters" when they were haggling up and burning mercs in Fallujah, and 20 years from now they'll be employing their new rights of Free Speech to bitch about dead soldier's gravestones fucking up their view as they drive down their new highways. If they start fucking with Aramco or something...maybe then.

[Blind groper]

It may be a bit difficult for them to truly call it a holy war against the crusader when most of those fighting them are other Muslims. And, of course, most of the people they are murdering are other Muslims.

[piscator]

It may be a bit difficult for them to truly call it a holy war against the crusader when most of those fighting them are other Muslims. And, of course, most of the people they are murdering are other Muslims.

Keep it that way. Other Muslims might make them stop. Probably Shiite Muslims, but that's OK too...

[Collector1337]

I'm wondering if the world is sick of this shit enough yet.

I'm thinking nukes should be taken into consideration.

[JimC]

I'm wondering if the world is sick of this shit enough yet.

I'm thinking nukes should be taken into consideration.

A clear absurdity, even to one like myself who would wish all ISIS soldiers dead ASAP...

Where exactly would you detonate your nuclear weapon, and what political and military ramifications would it provoke?

Sometimes I think the excessive love of weapons of any sort in a significant number of the American populace is a serious mental disease...

[Hermit]

I'm wondering if the world is sick of this shit enough yet.

I'm thinking nukes should be taken into consideration.

Glassing the area 200,000 ISIS soldiers occupy will also kill the 10 - 12 million people that live there. This will go down well with the other 1.8 billion Muslims. They will not be upset at all, nor will any previously apathetic followers of Islam wish to have anything to do with the terrorists who fight the rest of the world, not at all.

[Collector1337]

I'm wondering if the world is sick of this shit enough yet.

I'm thinking nukes should be taken into consideration.

A clear absurdity, even to one like myself who would wish all ISIS soldiers dead ASAP...

Where exactly would you detonate your nuclear weapon, and what political and military ramifications would it provoke?

Sometimes I think the excessive love of weapons of any sort in a significant number of the American populace is a serious mental disease...

Well, you've answered my question. Clearly the world isn't sick of this shit enough yet. If they were, they'd at least consider taking the steps that may need to be taken.

It wouldn't be that hard. Identify ISIS locations. Notify civilian populace to evacuate ISIS locations or they will be considered ISIS. Drop nuke or nukes of appropriate kilotonage.

Political ramifications, there would be no doubt. But, what the fuck is anyone going to do? Fuck with America who has a larger military than all the world super powers combined, starting WW3?

Ha, pfffft, I think not. You can thank us later.

Or, we can do nothing. I'm thinking maybe we just sit this one out and the rest of the world can figure it out without us for a change. I'm tired of seeing our vets with missing limbs, brain injuries, and PTSD. I think it's time you guys took a turn, seeing as you want the world to be all civilized and such. Time to act or shut the fuck up.

Do you honestly believe that a cultural difference is really a "mental disease?"