Obama's speech/outrage at congress failure to pass gun law

[pErvinalia]

There's an aspect of this that caught my eye while I was watching it. I know there's another thread specifically on the broader issue, but as that is just going to turn into the usual stupid gun debate thread, I wanted to host this separately.

The thing that caught my eye is a phenomenon that people have been talking about in regards to Obama ever since he first ran for the Presidency. That is, his ability to win you over with his words (and delivery). While I was watching that speech, I was right on his side, and in that moment it would be impossible to think that this man is responsible for so much authoritarian crap and oppression. He's a fucking magician, man! He has such a talent for oration.

Essentially, about half way through his speech, while I was getting ready to slober all over his digital cock, I snapped out of it and remembered this is the man who is responsible for so many terrible things, including the terrible drone attacks on innocent people, including children; and the seemingly unconditional support of the oppression of the Palestinians by the Israeli's; among other things.

Then, so many of his words became just empty rhetoric.

[Ian]

Intent is what matters. Are drone attacks deliberately done against civilians, or are they nearby? Does it really seem like he unconditionally supports everything Israel does? Doesn't sound like it to me.

There's no such thing as a perfect politician. Obama certainly isn't. But I'd vote for him a third time if I could.

[Kristie]

Intent is what matters. Are drone attacks deliberately done against civilians, or are they nearby? Does it really seem like he unconditionally supports everything Israel does? Doesn't sound like it to me.

There's no such thing as a perfect politician. Obama certainly isn't. But I'd vote for him a third time if I could.

Of course.

[Ian]

Oh, you had to respond to my post! Now rEv is gonna say something about that...

[pErvinalia]

Intent is what matters. Are drone attacks deliberately done against civilians, or are they nearby?

The point is that it happens, and they continue to do it knowing that it will continue to happen.

Does it really seem like he unconditionally supports everything Israel does? Doesn't sound like it to me.

Fairly close to it. Did you see his ridiculous speech when he was there a couple of weeks ago?

Let's not forget that Israel has nuclear weapons. The US should be calling for their disarmament too (or at least bring it out in the open and subject them to inspections and proper protocols).

There's no such thing as a perfect politician. Obama certainly isn't. But I'd vote for him a third time if I could.

If the choice was between him and a republican only I would always vote for him. But the point is the bullshit rhetoric that politicians (of all stripes) spew out. I can't remember his exact words, but he was basically incredulous of congress not understanding the solid reasoning for these changes. He might be right, but it's massive hypocrisy to chastise others for not seeing reason, while he (and the Democrats in general) don't see reason on a host of other equally disastrous things.

I guess it's the hypocrisy that is galling me. If he just took it on the chin and said he was "disappointed, but that's politics", then at least he would have been honest. As it is, his words are empty rhetoric. But VERY alluring rhetoric. He is a master at delivering speeches.

edit: Oh, and look who else has popped up in this thread.... (I'm meaning Kristie here)

[Collector1337]

There's an aspect of this that caught my eye while I was watching it. I know there's another thread specifically on the broader issue, but as that is just going to turn into the usual stupid gun debate thread, I wanted to host this separately.

The thing that caught my eye is a phenomenon that people have been talking about in regards to Obama ever since he first ran for the Presidency. That is, his ability to win you over with his words (and delivery). While I was watching that speech, I was right on his side, and in that moment it would be impossible to think that this man is responsible for so much authoritarian crap and oppression. He's a fucking magician, man! He has such a talent for oration.

Essentially, about half way through his speech, while I was getting ready to slober all over his digital cock, I snapped out of it and remembered this is the man who is responsible for so many terrible things, including the terrible drone attacks on innocent people, including children; and the seemingly unconditional support of the oppression of the Palestinians by the Israeli's; among other things.

Then, so many of his words became just empty rhetoric.

I voted for Obama in 2008. I did not vote for him in 2012.

I'm glad you were able to take off the clouded lenses.

[pErvinalia]

Well, I took them off a long time ago. But I doubt you and I are allied on much more than this. I'm a far left libertarian-socialisty sort of person.

[Collector1337]

Well, I took them off a long time ago. But I doubt you and I are allied on much more than this. I'm a far left libertarian-socialisty sort of person.

I am Libertarian, and left about some things as well.

[Jason]

The thing that caught my eye is a phenomenon that people have been talking about in regards to Obama ever since he first ran for the Presidency. That is, his ability to win you over with his words (and delivery). While I was watching that speech, I was right on his side, and in that moment it would be impossible to think that this man is responsible for so much authoritarian crap and oppression. He's a fucking magician, man! He has such a talent for oration.

Paging Godwin.

[pErvinalia]

Do you even know what a Godwin is? It seems not.

[Jason]

Did your ex crawl up yer ass dude?

The same things were said about Adolf Hitler.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah, but I didn't mention Hitler. It's only a Godwin if you compare someone to Hitler/Nazi's.

Just don't stick up for Obama, then I won't get all serious and shit.

[Jason]

I didn't mean you made a Godwin, I meant I'm waiting for someone to.. which, as it happens, was me.

[pErvinalia]

Dude...

[Ian]

rEv, if you ever find a politician who shares your views on every single subject and can also function as an effective leader in a democracy, let me know. I know of no such being. As far as I can see, Obama's about as close as I can realistically get.

Lincoln suspended habeus corpus during the Civil War. Franklin Roosevelt had a scheme to increase the size of the Supreme Court so he could pack it with New Deal-friendly justices. Eisenhower signed off on a bloody coup in Iran. JFK hedged and procrastinated on civil rights. And Clinton was getting blowjobs in the west wing from an intern. I think I can put these things into the contexts of far larger perspectives when assessing an overall legacy.

A handful of Obama's achievements to date:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/magazi ... 035755.php
http://obamaachievements.org/
http://pleasecutthecrap.typepad.com/mai ... -2009.html
But, even in 2013 the President doesn't have a weapon that can take out Al Qaeda fighters without also hitting some of the human shields they surround themselves with, so some on the left get hissy about his "empty rhetoric" in general. Gimme a break. This is one thing that drives me nuts about liberals as opposed to conservatives. I despise conservatism, but at least they're good at solidarity within their ranks. Throughout history, left-of-center organizations are always plagued by infighting, but conservative ones are more cohesive.

(BTW, I hope you're not hung up on "drones". If you don't like aerial strikes against Al Qaeda/Taliban targets, that's fine (although I'd give that opinion more respect if you voiced a credible alternative), but I tend to roll my eyes when I hear people gripe about unmanned aerial vehicles, or UAVs. I don't even like the word drones, due to its inherent inaccuracy. It's just sensationalism to think that unmanned aircraft are an entirely different thing from manned aircraft. There are still human pilots on the ground, human mission planners, human targeteers, etc., just like there have been for generations. The day that "drones" are deciding for themselves where to fly and what to attack, then it becomes an important point of contention.)