The Flu Vaccine

[Coito ergo sum]

This Slate article is bound to cause a stir... http://www.slate.com/articles/health_an ... ealth.html

Here’s a common complaint about the annual flu vaccine: “The last time I got the shot, I ended up getting the flu anyway!” Epidemiological data seem to back up such anecdotes. According to an American Lung Association report from 2010, there was no sustained decline in influenza-associated deaths over the past decades. Among those older than 65, according to a New England Journal of Medicine review, flu hospitalization rates rose steadily between 1979 and 2001, despite an increase in vaccination rates among seniors from 32 percent in 1989 to 67 percent in 1997.

[Svartalf]

I don't know about this... Before I started getting my shots, I caught it every winter, possibly 2 or 3 timmes rather than once. Since, I've spent flu less winters.

[Audley Strange]

There could be a number of factors. An increase in population, more old folks, more hospitals treating flu, increasingly virulent and varied strains.

[Tero]

It's a conspiracy. As long as you get a flu shot, you vote Democrat, without actually being aware you did.

[Sean Hayden]

I don't get one.

Thankfully I can't remember the last time I had the flu, I must have been a child. I get the common cold often enough though, ain't shit you can do for either eh?

[Audley Strange]

I don't get one.

Thankfully I can't remember the last time I had the flu, I must have been a child. I get the common cold often enough though, ain't shit you can do for either eh?

Well despite his the claims of his crankery, I was advised, by a doctor to follow Paulings idea that taking large amounts of vitamin C when one has the cold. It doesn't get rid of it at all but it does make the symptoms much easier to endure. (The cold that is, not the flu)

[Coito ergo sum]

There could be a number of factors. An increase in population, more old folks, more hospitals treating flu, increasingly virulent and varied strains.

The article was referring to "rates" -- so, I don't think that having "more old folks" would matter, because if the vaccine worked well, one would think the "Rate" of influenza would go down, even if absolute numbers went up because of a substantial rise in population.

If it's because of increasingly virulent and varied strains, then that would not suggest that the vaccine is working. Quite the opposite.

If a vaccine works, one should see the rate of presence of a disease in a population go down.

I'm not an antivaxxer guy by any means. I tend to be pro technological developments. However, I do laugh at folks like the Skepchickadees who are all like "you're such an idiot if you question the efficacy of vaccines..." but at the same time, they accept every apocalyptic horror prediction associated with a pesticide or a genetically modified food. Vaccines, good and safe (cuz we believe the manufacturers and the FDA) -- genetically modified foods, bad and evil (cuz we can't believe the manufacturers and the FDA). LOL

[Audley Strange]

There could be a number of factors. An increase in population, more old folks, more hospitals treating flu, increasingly virulent and varied strains.

The article was referring to "rates" -- so, I don't think that having "more old folks" would matter, because if the vaccine worked well, one would think the "Rate" of influenza would go down, even if absolute numbers went up because of a substantial rise in population.

If it's because of increasingly virulent and varied strains, then that would not suggest that the vaccine is working. Quite the opposite.

If a vaccine works, one should see the rate of presence of a disease in a population go down.

I'm not an antivaxxer guy by any means. I tend to be pro technological developments. However, I do laugh at folks like the Skepchickadees who are all like "you're such an idiot if you question the efficacy of vaccines..." but at the same time, they accept every apocalyptic horror prediction associated with a pesticide or a genetically modified food. Vaccines, good and safe (cuz we believe the manufacturers and the FDA) -- genetically modified foods, bad and evil (cuz we can't believe the manufacturers and the FDA). LOL

Sure. Question everything, even that you should question everything and when your done question why you did it. The same clowns who moan about big Pharma and "western" medicine are often the ones deriding anti-vaxxers. "Hyperskepticism" is just skepticism, anything else is credulity or giving up.

[Tero]

Vaccune are dirty compared to drugs. They are complex mixtures. I never take a vaccine the first year if I can. Just read the news the first year.

Vaccines no longer need mercury preservative, if one shot per ampule.

[Coito ergo sum]

Sure. Question everything, even that you should question everything and when your done question why you did it. The same clowns who moan about big Pharma and "western" medicine are often the ones deriding anti-vaxxers. "Hyperskepticism" is just skepticism, anything else is credulity or giving up.

I tend to look at the evidence. I don't think vaccines are dangerous or cause autism, because I haven't seen sufficient evidence to make me accept the proposition. Same thing with nonorganic farming. The organic crowd is borderline religious, much like the antivax crowd.

For years I didn't take the flu vaccine because, well, I viewed it as there being no reason for me to take it. I didn't normally get the flu anyway. I didn't work in a high risk profession. And, even when I would get what I thought was the flu, it would go away in a few days. I've only had to take medicine other than over the counter remedies for flu symptoms once in the last 25 years, at least.

I took the vaccine this year, though, because apparently they say that pregnant women are really advised to do everything they can to avoid the flu, due to potentially high fevers that can damage the bun in the oven. So, I took the vaccine to at least be able to say I took it. If I didn't take it, and I got the flu, exposing She Who Must be Obeyed to it, then I would be very, very, very very upset with myself.

[Gerald McGrew]

Looks to me like the Slate article starts out with the arguments copied into the OP, but then proceeds to shoot them down. It concludes...

In the meantime, Americans should learn from the death toll of flu-vaccine skepticism in Japan. It was the only industrialized country to have mandatory universal flu vaccine of children, which helped produce herd immunity, The program fell victim to skeptics and was repealed in 1994. The result? The New England Journal of Medicine reported that flu deaths rose by 40,000 per year—almost as many people as died immediately from the atomic bomb in Hiroshima.

In the end, it’s easy to ascribe sinister motives to flu control efforts, especially if you’re unwilling to tolerate uncertainty. With a slight shift in perspective, however, one can see our evolving flu control programs as a triumph of public health.

So I'm not sure what sort of "stir" this is supposed to cause.

[Jason]

I don't get flu shots. I rarely get the flu or a cold, or seriously ill in any way.

[Audley Strange]

Sure. Question everything, even that you should question everything and when your done question why you did it. The same clowns who moan about big Pharma and "western" medicine are often the ones deriding anti-vaxxers. "Hyperskepticism" is just skepticism, anything else is credulity or giving up.

I tend to look at the evidence. I don't think vaccines are dangerous or cause autism, because I haven't seen sufficient evidence to make me accept the proposition. Same thing with nonorganic farming. The organic crowd is borderline religious, much like the antivax crowd.

For years I didn't take the flu vaccine because, well, I viewed it as there being no reason for me to take it. I didn't normally get the flu anyway. I didn't work in a high risk profession. And, even when I would get what I thought was the flu, it would go away in a few days. I've only had to take medicine other than over the counter remedies for flu symptoms once in the last 25 years, at least.

I took the vaccine this year, though, because apparently they say that pregnant women are really advised to do everything they can to avoid the flu, due to potentially high fevers that can damage the bun in the oven. So, I took the vaccine to at least be able to say I took it. If I didn't take it, and I got the flu, exposing She Who Must be Obeyed to it, then I would be very, very, very very upset with myself.

Evidence? There is my problem. Evidence is that which is evinced to me. Statistical studies and research are not evidence to me any more than they should be for anyone else (except the actual statisticians and researchers). People spout all these things fourth and fifth hand, you know? I.E. Forum posts linking a news article to a science article written by a reviewer of such research.

A lot of noise gets in. Best thing then, empiricism and personal cost benefit analysis. In your case I think you chose excellently.

[Gerald McGrew]

I used to rarely get sick...then we had kids.

Now they're a little older (13 and 10) and aren't the snot factories/virus vectors they used to be, so my rate of illness is declining once again.

[Svartalf]

I don't get flu shots. I rarely get the flu or a cold, or seriously ill in any way.

YOu're lucky, nothing protects from the cold.