Germany rejects multiculturalism

[Warren Dew]

Not sure what to think of this.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told a gathering of young members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party this weekend that the "multikulti" concept – where people of different backgrounds would live together happily – does not work in Germany....

And her comments come just days after a study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank (which is affiliated with the center-left Social Democratic Party) found that more than 30 percent of people believed Germany was "overrun by foreigners" who had come to Germany chiefly for its social benefits.

The study also found that 13 percent of Germans would welcome a “Führer” – a German word for leader that is explicitly associated with Adolf Hitler – to run the country “with a firm hand.” Some 60 percent of Germans would “restrict the practice of Islam,” and 17 percent think Jews have “too much influence,” according to the study.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-N ... rly-failed

[Coito ergo sum]

They ought to report themselves the United Nations human rights commission.

[Trolldor]

Not sure what to think of this.

German Chancellor Angela Merkel told a gathering of young members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union (CDU) party this weekend that the "multikulti" concept – where people of different backgrounds would live together happily – does not work in Germany....

And her comments come just days after a study by the Friedrich Ebert Foundation think tank (which is affiliated with the center-left Social Democratic Party) found that more than 30 percent of people believed Germany was "overrun by foreigners" who had come to Germany chiefly for its social benefits.

The study also found that 13 percent of Germans would welcome a “Führer” – a German word for leader that is explicitly associated with Adolf Hitler – to run the country “with a firm hand.” Some 60 percent of Germans would “restrict the practice of Islam,” and 17 percent think Jews have “too much influence,” according to the study.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-N ... rly-failed

I read this.

Multiculturalism is the problem. The assumption that you can throw a bunch of cultures together in a single space and then let them operate independantly. Of course, I think a lot of people mislabel something as 'multicultural' simply because there's more than one culture there.

[devogue]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

Christ, you'd think that after everything that happened...

[Warren Dew]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

I was more worried by the 13% that wanted Hitler back. I'd like to see what percentage think Jews have "too little influence", though.

[beige]

I'm not sure whether to apply for British Nationality or not. Sometimes I feel this place is just as bad as Germany, but those kind of stats are just worrying.

13% would welcome a Fuhrer who rules with a firm hand? Seriously? Where the hell did they find these retards?

[Coito ergo sum]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

Christ, you'd think that after everything that happened...

You don't go from murdering millions of people because they're Jewish to thinking only good thoughts in just a few years. People hate Jews, and even when people think it's wrong to kill them or discriminate them, the ideas that they are insular, cheap, scheming, grasping and controlling are passed down to each succeeding generation. Huge percentages of Europeans have hated Jews since there were Jews in Europe.

[devogue]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

Christ, you'd think that after everything that happened...

You don't go from murdering millions of people because they're Jewish to thinking only good thoughts in just a few years. People hate Jews, and even when people think it's wrong to kill them or discriminate them, the ideas that they are insular, cheap, scheming, grasping and controlling are passed down to each succeeding generation. Huge percentages of Europeans have hated Jews since there were Jews in Europe.

Indeed, but it is depressing to see almost a fifth of Germans (according to this one poll, admittedly) denigrating the Jews who only comprise 0.13% of the population in Germany - and that's after their immediate forefathers wiped out 90% of German Jews during the Second World War. After years of hearing about German shame, denazification, and how the horrors of the Holocaust were drummed in to subsequent generations, it is truly shocking that so many Germans have the gall to hold such an opinion. Too much fucking influence, my arse.

[Coito ergo sum]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

Christ, you'd think that after everything that happened...

You don't go from murdering millions of people because they're Jewish to thinking only good thoughts in just a few years. People hate Jews, and even when people think it's wrong to kill them or discriminate them, the ideas that they are insular, cheap, scheming, grasping and controlling are passed down to each succeeding generation. Huge percentages of Europeans have hated Jews since there were Jews in Europe.

Indeed, but it is depressing to see almost a fifth of Germans (according to this one poll, admittedly) denigrating the Jews who only comprise 0.13% of the population in Germany - and that's after their immediate forefathers wiped out 90% of German Jews during the Second World War. After years of hearing about German shame, denazification, and how the horrors of the Holocaust were drummed in to subsequent generations, it is truly shocking that so many Germans have the gall to hold such an opinion. Too much fucking influence, my arse.

Many Germans still think they are better than everyone else. Swedes too.

[electricwhiteboy]

It all depends on what extent you believe that each group should maintain its individual culture, and what the effects of cultural drift are. I had a massive thorny argument once when an old girlfriend of mine moved in with second generation Iranian immigrants. Essentially I profoundly disagreed with the aggressive bullshit macho posturing, insane political arguments where I had to argue that Britain should not become a tax haven like Dubai, and that it's constitutionally unsound to deport our poor. Deflowering virgins was not a competitive sport, and that enjoying street violence and deliberately trying to stir up racial tensions to have a scrap in the centre of Glasgow was utterly obscene.

Now I don’t for a second think that the majority of Iranians are like the social group of fuckwits that I met. Or that I wouldn’t hear exactly the same bullshit from native Glaswegians. The argument I got time and again was it’s our culture I’m an Iranian. Multiculturalism cannot be an argument for behaving like an utter shithead with impunity. If I criticise what you think is your culture I’m not a racist, or anti-immigration. Yes your hospitality is great, and you have a wonderful sense of family unity, but you can fuck off with the rest of it and I will dare to criticize it. I will recognise your right to religion, but I will argue your politics, your ingrained sexism and alpha male ballbaggery with my final breath. You have a right to your opinions but you do not have a right to not have them criticised especially if they fall into the cultural extreme of the nation you’re living in. To an extent there has to be a degree of debate, give and take, and assimilation. As long as that is inherent in your view of a multicultural society I’m fine with it.

[charlou]

Why single out the Germans for such stat gathering? What are the stats for similar thinking like in other countries? Perhaps a comparison would tone the alarm down somewhat ... if it doesn't increase it. Humans ...

[Feck]

I could point out that the percentage of Germans that think the Jews have too much influence are probably Turkish Muslims .

[charlou]

I could point out that the percentage of Germans that think the Jews have too much influence are probably Turkish Muslims .

There's a thought worth pointing out I think .. wonder if someone will.

[Coito ergo sum]

Why single out the Germans for such stat gathering? What are the stats for similar thinking like in other countries? Perhaps a comparison would tone the alarm down somewhat ... if it doesn't increase it. Humans ...

It probably won't be much different. Hating Jews was the norm throughout the world for 3000 years. The Romans hated the Jews, and leveled the same stereotypes against them that we hear today. Tacitus' and Juvenal's writings all contain blatantly anti-Jewish material. Emperors Tiberius and Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome. Philostratus wrote, in like the 3rd century, that "For the Jews have long been in revolt [...] against humanity; and a race that has made its own a life apart and irreconcilable, that cannot share the pleasures of the table with the rest of mankind nor join in their libations or prayers or sacrifices, are separated from ourselves by a greater gulf than divides us from Susa or Bactra or the more distant Indies." Sound familiar?

The Europeans blamed them for the Black Plague and for most economic crises, and drove them out of London, Paris and other European cities repeatedly. Muslims have hated Jews since the 7th century.

The Blood Libel was a prevalent belief in the Christian world until the early 20th century, and still is somewhat common in the Muslim world - that Jews use the blood of non-Jews to make ritual cakes, etc. This was a common belief for hundreds of years.

Jews "poisoned the wells,"and Jews "desecrate the host" (ruin the communion wafers).

For hundreds of years it was a prevalent view that Jews disavowed business dealings and contracts by a prayer called the Kol Nidre. This way they could cheat non-Jews.

I used to know a Hasitic Jewish guy - they live in a very insular community, but we came in contact at work. Nice guy. We started having some in depth conversations about religion. He was quite interested because I was the first atheist he ever met. I learned that in his upbringing, he was taught to believe that Christians thought Jews weren't human and had horns. He was serious. I laughed and told him that having been brought up Protestant, I could tell him that I never heard that ever. He was somewhat relieved, but didn't exactly believe me 100%. I learned later that he had good reason not to, since the idea of Jews having horns was pretty common until just a few decades ago.

I mean, this is hatred and prejudice that runs pretty damn deep. It doesn't just go away in a few decades.

[Hermit]

...17 percent think Jews have “too much influence”

17% is remarkably high.

I'd like to know what percentage of the populations in the UK, the USA, France and Italy think that Jews have too much influence.

I was more worried by the 13% that wanted Hitler back.

13% said they wanted a strong leader - not Hitler back. That's the sort of sentiment that contributed to enabling all sorts of populists to gain power, ranging in the political spectrum from Chavez to Bjelke-Peterson.