Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

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Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Lozzer » Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:57 am

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11041449
A senior astronomer has said that the hunt for alien life should take into account alien "sentient machines".

Seti, the Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, has until now sought radio signals from worlds like Earth.

But Seti astronomer Seth Shostak argues that the time between aliens developing radio technology and artificial intelligence (AI) would be short.

Writing in Acta Astronautica, he says that the odds favour detecting such alien AI rather than "biological" life.

Many involved in Seti have long argued that nature may have solved the problem of life using different designs or chemicals, suggesting extraterrestrials would not only not look like us, but that they would not at a biological level even work like us.

However, Seti searchers have mostly still worked under the assumption - as a starting point for a search of the entire cosmos - that ETs would be "alive" in the sense that we know.


That has led to a hunt for life that is bound to follow at least some rules of biochemistry, live for a finite period of time, procreate, and above all be subject to the processes of evolution.

But Dr Shostak makes the point that while evolution can take a large amount of time to develop beings capable of communicating beyond their own planet, technology would already be advancing fast enough to eclipse the species that wrought it.

"If you look at the timescales for the development of technology, at some point you invent radio and then you go on the air and then we have a chance of finding you," he told BBC News.

"But within a few hundred years of inventing radio - at least if we're any example - you invent thinking machines; we're probably going to do that in this century.

"So you've invented your successors and only for a few hundred years are you... a 'biological' intelligence."

From a probability point of view, if such thinking machines ever evolved, we would be more likely to spot signals from them than from the "biological" life that invented them.

'Moving target'
John Elliott, a Seti research veteran based at Leeds Metropolitan University, UK, says that Dr Shostak is putting on a firmer footing a feeling that is not uncommon in the Seti community.

"You have to start somewhere, and there's nothing wrong with that," Dr Elliott told BBC News.


Alien AI may choose to linger at galactic centres, where matter and energy are plentiful
"But having now looked for signals for 50 years, Seti is going through a process of realising the way our technology is advancing is probably a good indicator of how other civilisations - if they're out there - would've progressed.

"Certainly what we're looking at out there is an evolutionary moving target."

Both Dr Shostak and Dr Elliott concede that finding and decoding any eventual message from such alien thinking machines may prove more difficult than in the "biological" case, but the idea does provide new directions to look.

Dr Shostak says that artificially intelligent alien life would be likely to migrate to places where both matter and energy - the only things he says would be of interest to the machines - would be in plentiful supply. That means the Seti hunt may need to focus its attentions near hot, young stars or even near the centres of galaxies.

"I think we could spend at least a few percent of our time... looking in the directions that are maybe not the most attractive in terms of biological intelligence but maybe where sentient machines are
Personally, I very much doubt aliens exist at all :mousy:
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnneeee

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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:01 pm

But Seti astronomer Seth Shostak argues that the time between aliens developing radio technology and artificial intelligence (AI) would be short.
I don't think we'll be using radio in 100 years, so the windows is smaller than he thinks. Marconi got going good around 1895, and we are already outgrowing "broadcast" radio xmissions.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Feck » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:05 pm

With such a huge number of planets out there I would be surprised they didn't (or hadn't or wouldn't ) .

but space-traveling Tech -using aliens that we will ever meet or even detect probably not .
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Lozzer » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:09 pm

If there's aliens trying to find other life-forms, then they're not doing a very good job are they? What's the point, they're extra-terrestrial retards
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnneeee

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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:11 pm

Lozzer wrote:If there's aliens trying to find other life-forms, then they're not doing a very good job are they? What's the point, they're extra-terrestrial retards
Imainge you lived in 1860. You'd be listening fir telegraphy, the most advanced comm system you knew.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Feck » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:12 pm

Lozzer wrote:If there's aliens trying to find other life-forms, then they're not doing a very good job are they? What's the point, they're extra-terrestrial retards
Who says they are looking or for that matter who says they would want to contact us ?

ALIEN gettit ? probably not like us ...
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:13 pm

Feck wrote:
Lozzer wrote:If there's aliens trying to find other life-forms, then they're not doing a very good job are they? What's the point, they're extra-terrestrial retards
Who says they are looking or for that matter who says they would want to contact us ?

ALIEN gettit ? probably not like us ...
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Aug 23, 2010 12:18 pm

A senior astronomer has said that the hunt for alien life should take into account alien "sentient machines".
:yawn:

I knew that in 1999.

http://uk.pc.ign.com/articles/129/129948p1.html
Machines takes place nearly 200 years in the future. A time in which humankind has explored the reaches of the universe with remote controlled machines, searching for otherworldly resources as well as seeking out suitable planets for human inhabitation. After sending out countless probes filled with colonizing robots it seems that we wacky humans decided to blow the living crap out of each other in yet another world war (when will we learn people, when will we learn?), reducing the earth to little more than a radioactive hunk of rock spiraling through the solar system and leaving the probe robots to their own devices. Following their default instruction sets, the machines continue to explore and harvest distant planets, eventually becoming self-aware (bet you never saw that plot twist coming, huh?) and begin to replicate and retrofit themselves to insure the survival of their species. Well it seems that self-awareness brings out some human traits in the machines, most notably the need to destroy one another, and now the robots are hell-bent on seeking out rival groups of machines to conquer so they can control all of the resources in the universe (when will you learn machines, when will you learn?).
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by mistermack » Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:58 pm

Obviously artificial intelligence is going to come along. But robots independent of the animal life that created them is much less likely. You would imagine that aliens would be well aware of the danger of that, and have rules in place to ban them, and destroy them, if any were made illegally.
There could be automated explorers out there, but the galaxy is so incredibly vast that the odds are very much against detecting them, or them us.

Science fiction usually has the plot of aliens looking for suitable planets to colonise, but, once space technology got really going, planets wouldn't be needed.
You can just colonise space. Why would you crave a planet, that needs huge amounts of energy to land and take off from?

You could get all your raw materials from moons, meteorites and comets, with little or no energy needed to get them into space. And so long as you're near a star, you've got all the free energy you could possibly want. A planet would maybe be useful for mining rare minerals, that's about all. The smaller moons would be more practical for that too.
So I can see very little need for planets, in the future space colonisation, by humans or anything else.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:38 pm

mistermack wrote:Obviously artificial intelligence is going to come along. But robots independent of the animal life that created them is much less likely. You would imagine that aliens would be well aware of the danger of that, and have rules in place to ban them, and destroy them, if any were made illegally.
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Amd laws and rules work SOOOOO well.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by mistermack » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:48 pm

Gawdzilla wrote: Amd laws and rules work SOOOOO well.
Who can tell how aliens behave? Maybe when WE get past the stage of having seperate countries, universal laws will mean something.
And intelligent robots would be considered more dangerous than H bombs, if they had any sense.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:49 pm

mistermack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote: Amd laws and rules work SOOOOO well.
Who can tell how aliens behave?
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You just predicted how they'd act. :fp:
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by mistermack » Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:45 pm

Gawdzilla wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote: Amd laws and rules work SOOOOO well.
Who can tell how aliens behave?
.
You just predicted how they'd act. :fp:
Nobody can tell, but we're all allowed to guess. It's called the law of constant speculation. You get it a lot with aliens.
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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Rum » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:10 pm

I would be astonished if there wasn't 'advanced' (whatever that means) life out there and out-when..because a million planets could have developed complex life and lost it over the billions of years the universe has been around, even if you count the first third as too unstable and volatile. We have been 'advanced' for the equivalent of less than one zillionth of one tick of a clock.

We keep looking at things from a human perspective! I know it is hard not to, but our scale of looking at the universe is simply too small.

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Re: Aliens may be 'thinking machines'

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:14 pm

mistermack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:
mistermack wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote: Amd laws and rules work SOOOOO well.
Who can tell how aliens behave?
.
You just predicted how they'd act. :fp:
Nobody can tell, but we're all allowed to guess. It's called the law of constant speculation. You get it a lot with aliens.
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