Palestine v Israel.

[Brian Peacock]

Yeah I couldn't even be bothered addressing the Jew thing in my reply. It's patently dishonest. Perhaps we should quote the recent figure of 190k (I think it was) which includes an estimate of the multitudes buried alive by the most moral army in the world.

I don't know about the 190k figure, but in May, when the estimated fatalities were c.37,000, Israeli Intelligence deemed Hamas-run health ministry's death toll figures as generally accurate. Also in May Unicef estimated that c.14,000 children had been killed in Gaza. In a letter published in The Lancet in early July, researchers from the Aurora Research Institute in Milwaukee, the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, and The Population Health Research Institute at McMaster University estimated that the total fatalities, including unreported and indirect deaths, could be as high as 180,000.

But I predict that SD will just go quiet for a week or so and then pop back to snipe at some other detail in some other post, without ever actually engaging on the matters he so earnestly takes issue with.

[Strontium Dog]

Look, this nonsense has already been addressed numerous times in the past. Like when Hamas told everyone an Israeli missile killed 500 people in a hospital, and the world's media dutifully reported that, then very soon after it turned out to be a malfunctioned Islamic Jihad rocket which killed about 100 people in the hospital car park. You believe Hamas because you want to.

[pErvinalia]

In a letter published in The Lancet in early July, researchers from the Aurora Research Institute in Milwaukee, the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine, and The Population Health Research Institute at McMaster University estimated that the total fatalities, including unreported and indirect deaths, could be as high as 180,000.

Yeah that's the one I was referring to.

And the most moral army in the world is very sorry those deaths had to happen. But Hamas made them do it.

[Svartalf]

When the most moral army in the world does all that, it makes run of the mill terrorists look like little saints.

[Brian Peacock]

Look, this nonsense has already been addressed numerous times in the past. Like when Hamas told everyone an Israeli missile killed 500 people in a hospital, and the world's media dutifully reported that, then very soon after it turned out to be a malfunctioned Islamic Jihad rocket which killed about 100 people in the hospital car park. You believe Hamas because you want to.

Look, this nonsense has already been addressed numerous times in the past. Like when Israeli armed forces assaulted what had been Gaza’s main medical facility, al-Shifa hospital, last November, only for the Washington Post to discredit Israel's key claims that the hospital was used as a “command and control centre” and that tunnels could be accessed from hospital wards. Like when Israeli armed forces denied killing c.100 people queuing for food aid in February only for it to emerge that their account of events was simply not credible. Like when Israeli spokesmen claimed Hamas had murdered 40 babies on Oct 7 and that a number of them had been beheaded. You believe the IDF because you need to.

But still, although you seek to discredit the fatality estimates, you offer absolutely nothing to substantiate in what regard they are wrong, by what amount or measure, or offer any alternative credible sources - while simultaneously ignoring that NGOs, the UN, the WHO, the US State Department, and the Israeli intelligence services themselves all accept that the Gaza health authority figures are broadly accurate.

I think you need to believe the number of Gazans killed by Israeli armed forces is substantially lower than reported because the alternative is far too unpalatable for you to process.

[L'Emmerdeur]

I think you need to believe the number of Gazans killed by Israeli armed forces is substantially lower than reported because the alternative is far too unpalatable for you to process.

Admirably charitable and perhaps even accurate.

[rainbow]

I think you need to believe the number of Gazans killed by Israeli armed forces is substantially lower than reported because the alternative is far too unpalatable for you to process.

Admirably charitable and perhaps even accurate.

I disagree.

Zionists don't actually believe the lies, but they feel a duty to spread them.
http://www.middle-east-info.org/take/wujshasbara.pdf

[Brian Peacock]

Tel Aviv-based political analyst and public opinion expert Dahlia Scheindlin considers the political disconnect between Israeli public opinion overwhelmingly in favour of a negotiated hostage deal and the administration's insistence that only war can save them.


Israelis Want the Hostages Back. So Why Is Netanyahu's Government Ignoring Them?

In poll after poll, a majority of Israelis see the return of the hostages held by Hamas in Gaza as a national priority. But the Netanyahu government shouldn't need surveys to know it's a moral imperative.

-- Haaretz, 5 June 24

(continues for free, but requires email)

[pErvinalia]

Netanyahu and his fellow thugs don't care about the hostages. Their sole goal is the elimination of Hamas. Hostages be damned.

[rainbow]

Tel Aviv-based political analyst and public opinion expert Dahlia Scheindlin considers the political disconnect between Israeli public opinion overwhelmingly in favour of a negotiated hostage deal and the administration's insistence that only war can save them.


Israelis Want the Hostages Back. So Why Is Netanyahu's Government Ignoring Them?

In poll after poll, a majority of Israelis see the return of the hostages held by Hamas in Gaza as a national priority. But the Netanyahu government shouldn't need surveys to know it's a moral imperative.

-- Haaretz, 5 June 24

(continues for free, but requires email)

Th hostages are also eye-witnesses of the IDF shooting at Israelis under the Hannibal Directive. There is a good reason why the enquiry has been delayed until after the war.

[Strontium Dog]

Look, this nonsense has already been addressed numerous times in the past. Like when Hamas told everyone an Israeli missile killed 500 people in a hospital, and the world's media dutifully reported that, then very soon after it turned out to be a malfunctioned Islamic Jihad rocket which killed about 100 people in the hospital car park. You believe Hamas because you want to.

Look, this nonsense has already been addressed numerous times in the past. Like when Israeli armed forces assaulted what had been Gaza’s main medical facility, al-Shifa hospital, last November, only for the Washington Post to discredit Israel's key claims that the hospital was used as a “command and control centre” and that tunnels could be accessed from hospital wards. Like when Israeli armed forces denied killing c.100 people queuing for food aid in February only for it to emerge that their account of events was simply not credible. Like when Israeli spokesmen claimed Hamas had murdered 40 babies on Oct 7 and that a number of them had been beheaded. You believe the IDF because you need to.

But still, although you seek to discredit the fatality estimates, you offer absolutely nothing to substantiate in what regard they are wrong, by what amount or measure, or offer any alternative credible sources - while simultaneously ignoring that NGOs, the UN, the WHO, the US State Department, and the Israeli intelligence services themselves all accept that the Gaza health authority figures are broadly accurate.

I think you need to believe the number of Gazans killed by Israeli armed forces is substantially lower than reported because the alternative is far too unpalatable for you to process.

Antisemites "debunking" Israel, yes, of course that's credible.

And I don't care how many terrorists die, so long as Jewish democracy survives and thrives.

[pErvinalia]

Ah yes, everyone who disagrees with me is an antisemite.

[Brian Peacock]

Aye. Automatically charging critics with antisemitism is a way to focus on the feelings of Jews, but at the same time it's also a way of erasing Palestinians and what they are experiencing from the discourse - turning the issue towards one of Israeli or Jewish victimhood and away from the responsibilitirs a democratic nation has to international and humanitarian law.

And Israeli lies are good lies it seems - because they're lying for a greater cause.

[Svartalf]

Jewish victimhood stopped nearly 80 years ago, barring Soviet politics.

[rainbow]

Jewish victimhood stopped nearly 80 years ago, barring Soviet politics.

Nt