Should Communism Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

[JimC]

Marxist thinking may well have some very valid and useful perspectives on historical and economic developments in human civilisation, but the actions which have been taken under its aegis have been extremely susceptible to human corruption...

[DRSB]

Same with religions which too make some valuable ethical and moral points but the actions taken under its aegis have gone to some destructive extremes. I am happy I grew up being taught Marxism at school rather than religion.

[cronus]

Same with religions which too make some valuable ethical and moral points but the actions taken under its aegis have gone to some destructive extremes. I am happy I grew up being taught Marxism at school rather than religion.

It is a brilliant idea. I was possessed by Marx, Trotsky and permanent revolution, all those impossible ideals, in my youth. Only later did I realise it had a ugly side like the Capitalism it was fighting against. Religion and ideology are partners like that. Snares for the naive and young who don't know much. Still, we humans try to find that impossible ideal or dream or religion down here on Earth. And always we fail...only question is how many must suffer as they strive for the impossible with each new generation? Books written by idealogues are the most dangerous of things humans have developed by far.

[Hermit]

Books written by idealogues are the most dangerous of things humans have developed by far.

An ideologue is an adherent of an ideology and an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. Implicitly or explicitly, every book ever written is about one system of ideas and ideals or another. It really doesn't matter if you're reading Little Red Riding Hood, Das Kapital, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Treasure Island, Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Ring, Lord of the Flies or any of the millions of others, you are reading an ideology written by an ideologue.

[cronus]

Books written by idealogues are the most dangerous of things humans have developed by far.

An ideologue is an adherent of an ideology and an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. Implicitly or explicitly every book ever written is about system of ideas and ideals. It really doesn't matter if you're reading Little Red Riding Hood, Das Kapital, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Treasure Island, Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Ring, Lord of the Flies or any of the millions of others, you are reading an ideology written by an ideologue.

I know all about Das Capital. (Das Calculus) The book Darwin left on his desk unread. It's that little pamphlet published in 1849 that did the real damage.

[Hermit]

Books written by idealogues are the most dangerous of things humans have developed by far.

An ideologue is an adherent of an ideology and an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. Implicitly or explicitly every book ever written is about system of ideas and ideals. It really doesn't matter if you're reading Little Red Riding Hood, Das Kapital, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Treasure Island, Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Ring, Lord of the Flies or any of the millions of others, you are reading an ideology written by an ideologue.

I know all about Das Capital. (Das Calculus) The book Darwin left on his desk unread. It's that little pamphlet published in 1849 that did the real damage.

I have known for some years now that you lack the capacity of understanding as well as the capacity of making yourself understood, and I am fairly confident that most people you correspond with in this forum know that too. There really is no need for you to keep confirming this.

[Rum]

Ouch.

Not sure why this thread has popped up again but for me Marxism is a lens to look through which explains the power and economic relationships within Capitalism - and historically. I think it is a good one, though as I have grown older I have realised that there are multiple lenses one can choose to look through and in many respects what matters is how many people subscribe to the view rather than its true accuracy.

[JimC]

Books written by idealogues are the most dangerous of things humans have developed by far.

An ideologue is an adherent of an ideology and an ideology is a system of ideas and ideals. Implicitly or explicitly, every book ever written is about one system of ideas and ideals or another. It really doesn't matter if you're reading Little Red Riding Hood, Das Kapital, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, Treasure Island, Robinson Crusoe, Lord of the Ring, Lord of the Flies or any of the millions of others, you are reading an ideology written by an ideologue.

I know it is fashionable, and in strict terms correct, to read any text in such a way that aspects of the author's ideology emerge. However, when I consider ideology, I prefer to look at texts which are either explicit in their ideology, or those that at least advocate political/sociological points of view, even if they are not explicitly using the term ideology.

If all texts are considered "ideological statements", then ideology becomes too general, and loses its force, IMO...

[Rum]

I prefer to think in terms of 'values'. Those are expressed as a 'sub' text - though not always that far below the surface.

[JimC]

I prefer to think in terms of 'values'. Those are expressed as a 'sub' text - though not always that far below the surface.

There is really a continuum, I think. At one end, a book may be written that is absolutely specific in outlining a set of values or a political program, and clearly and straight-forwardly advancing arguments to support them. To me, this is ideology in the clearest sense. At the other end, are works of light fiction, with no intention other than to entertain. If one digs deep, one can attempt to discern the author's political philosophy, but often to little purpose.

In between, there are serious books, both fiction and non-fiction, which clearly demonstrate the author's feelings about politics or the human condition, without specifically advocating a program of action.

[laklak]

There are heavily ideological works like "The Three Little Pigs", and light entertainment like "Atlas Shrugged".

[Rum]

Not so deep maybe? A Janet and John reader - one of the learn to read books I had as a small child, reinforced the traditional roles of father (out at work and welcomed home to dinner by the mother and stay at home wife), sister, who was neat, tidy and proper and John...well you get the idea.

Values are threaded through all fiction pretty much and even academic texts on History and so on - think of the history we were taught compared to the postcolonial stuff kids get today. Arguably even a book which discusses an ideology does so from a differing perspective and ideology itself very often. I am being a bit of a sophist with that one though.

[Forty Two]

Ouch.

Not sure why this thread has popped up again but for me Marxism is a lens to look through which explains the power and economic relationships within Capitalism - and historically. I think it is a good one, though as I have grown older I have realised that there are multiple lenses one can choose to look through and in many respects what matters is how many people subscribe to the view rather than its true accuracy.

The problem with Marxism is that much of it is wrong, and as a lens distorts reality rather than magnifies it. It's more of a fun house mirror than a lens.

[Forty Two]

Not so deep maybe? A Janet and John reader - one of the learn to read books I had as a small child, reinforced the traditional roles of father (out at work and welcomed home to dinner by the mother and stay at home wife), sister, who was neat, tidy and proper and John...well you get the idea.

Values are threaded through all fiction pretty much and even academic texts on History and so on - think of the history we were taught compared to the postcolonial stuff kids get today. Arguably even a book which discusses an ideology does so from a differing perspective and ideology itself very often. I am being a bit of a sophist with that one though.

I like the traditional sex roles. My wife stays home with the kids. I am the dad who goes to work. I fix the broken stuff, and I do the stuff with the cars, the garbage/trash/bins, and I deal with banging nails and and putting up fixtures and replacing broken equipment/appliances. I deal with contractors and auto dealerships. I think it's best for the kids, too.

[DRSB]

Not so deep maybe? A Janet and John reader - one of the learn to read books I had as a small child, reinforced the traditional roles of father (out at work and welcomed home to dinner by the mother and stay at home wife), sister, who was neat, tidy and proper and John...well you get the idea.

Values are threaded through all fiction pretty much and even academic texts on History and so on - think of the history we were taught compared to the postcolonial stuff kids get today. Arguably even a book which discusses an ideology does so from a differing perspective and ideology itself very often. I am being a bit of a sophist with that one though.

I like the traditional sex roles. My wife stays home with the kids. I am the dad who goes to work. I fix the broken stuff, and I do the stuff with the cars, the garbage/trash/bins, and I deal with banging nails and and putting up fixtures and replacing broken equipment/appliances. I deal with contractors and auto dealerships. I think it's best for the kids, too.

"Traditional" has a meaning only in a context. What tradition, whose tradition?