Meanwhile, back in Kiev....

[Jason]

Seth, I don't know where you get your 'facts' from, but you're an idiot.

In case you didn't notice, the new 'government' of the Ukraine is illegitimate, the legitimate government of the Crimea asked for Russian protection, the Crimean government has voted to join the Russian Federation. The western coup didn't go as planned, the neo-nazis took it over, and now the west is caught with its pants down in a situation where they can neither intervene militarily nor economically and their proposed puppets have already been subverted. It's a cock-up of monumental proportions that really looks good on the hypocritical US foreign department.

[mistermack]

Putin overstepped and is getting his ass spanked by the rest of the world, he just has to bluster and whine for a little longer to try to save face before he'll have to retreat.

What's the weather like, on the planet loon? Have you stopped taking your medicine?

Take a quick glance at Georgia, if you want to see what Russia's ass looks like, after being ''spanked''.

[klr]

Seth, I don't know where you get your 'facts' from, but you're an idiot.

In case you didn't notice, the new 'government' of the Ukraine is illegitimate, the legitimate government of the Crimea asked for Russian protection, the Crimean government has voted to join the Russian Federation. The western coup didn't go as planned, the neo-nazis took it over, and now the west is caught with its pants down in a situation where they can neither intervene militarily nor economically and their proposed puppets have already been subverted. It's a cock-up of monumental proportions that really looks good on the hypocritical US foreign department.

How very nice and proper - and completely cock-eyed.

Here's something for you: Let's suppose the armed forces of the Irish Republic decide to invade Northern Ireland. To be specific, those parts dominated by people who would prefer to be Irish. Then, they get the local politicians to "vote" to join the Irish Republic, followed by a quick referendum a few days later.

Sounds legal? Sounds legitimate? Nope, didn't think so.

[mistermack]

Here's something for you: Let's suppose the armed forces of the Irish Republic decide to invade Northern Ireland. To be specific, those parts dominated by people who would prefer to be Irish. Then, they get the local politicians to "vote" to join the Irish Republic, followed by a quick referendum a few days later.

Sounds legal? Sounds legitimate? Nope, didn't think so.

Strange. That sounds much like what the British did, to split Ireland. Without the vote, or referendum.

And compared to the ''liberation'' of Iraq, this is positively legal.

[JimC]

I suspect both sides are pretty appalling. Putin and the Russians are venal opportunists who wish to add to Russian territory and power, the Ukrainian nationalists are dominated by anti-democratic right wing thugs and encouraged by provocateurs from the West...

[Svartalf]

Let's wait for the may elections to see if the right wing thugs have really won... now iss abit early to judge.

[Jason]

Unless I'm missing something, Russia has not invaded the Ukraine. That's all western media bs. They're more careful now about calling the troops actively guarding sites in the Crimea 'pro-Russian', not Russian now.

[Svartalf]

I have little doubt that the pro Russian 'Militias' were equipped with stuff that came straight from Moscow

[MrJonno]

Reality on the ground is Crimea is now part of a nuclear armed Russia, most the people in Crimea want it and no one outside Ukraine wants to start a nuclear war over it.
The EU gets most its energy from Russia so no serious sanctions are going to happen

Sorry Ukraine tough shit basically,the rights and wrongs are complicated but entirely irrelevant

[klr]

Unless I'm missing something, Russia has not invaded the Ukraine. That's all western media bs. They're more careful now about calling the troops actively guarding sites in the Crimea 'pro-Russian', not Russian now.

You're saying there are no Russian forces in the Crimea at all operating beyond the confines of their own bases? To say nothing of some troops coming in from Russia itself. If they were just pro-Russian Ukrainian troops, then troops loyal to the Ukraine would have no problem standing up to them. Unless the majority of Ukrainian solders are pro-Russian, in which case it would then be hard to explain why Yanukovych was forced to flee in the first place.

Here's something for you: Let's suppose the armed forces of the Irish Republic decide to invade Northern Ireland. To be specific, those parts dominated by people who would prefer to be Irish. Then, they get the local politicians to "vote" to join the Irish Republic, followed by a quick referendum a few days later.

Sounds legal? Sounds legitimate? Nope, didn't think so.

Strange. That sounds much like what the British did, to split Ireland. Without the vote, or referendum.

And compared to the ''liberation'' of Iraq, this is positively legal.

While Ireland was partitioned into two autonomous regions, this took place in 1920 - during the Irish War of Independence, not after. It was just acknowledging the status quo in Ireland, trying to deal with a problem that the British administration at the time was not really responsible for. To find the people responsible for that, you'd need to go back to the Plantations. The Ulster Unionists were implacably opposed to any Irish Home Rule that would be dominated by the South. Home Rule didn't even mean Irish independence: It meant self-rule within the UK. We'd probably call it devo-max now. The 1920 partition/Home Rule was an attempt to forestall independence by trying to satisfy both parties.

It didn't work of course. The Treaty on Irish Independence allowed Northern Ireland to "opt of" of the new Irish Free State if it so wished, which it quickly did. You could say that the British engineered this, but that would be giving them far too much credit IMHO.

[Warren Dew]

Seth, I don't know where you get your 'facts' from, but you're an idiot.

In case you didn't notice, the new 'government' of the Ukraine is illegitimate, the legitimate government of the Crimea asked for Russian protection, the Crimean government has voted to join the Russian Federation. The western coup didn't go as planned, the neo-nazis took it over, and now the west is caught with its pants down in a situation where they can neither intervene militarily nor economically and their proposed puppets have already been subverted. It's a cock-up of monumental proportions that really looks good on the hypocritical US foreign department.

You forgot the part where the supposed "coup" was endorsed by the Ukrainian parliament voting unanimously to remove Yanukovich.

I suppose you could claim everyone in their parliament is a neo-nazi, but they're still the legitimate government.

[Warren Dew]

I have little doubt that the pro Russian 'Militias' were equipped with stuff that came straight from Moscow

The reporters who have talked to them have concluded they are actually Russian troops. Some have identified what units they are from.

[pErvinalia]

[JimC]

Putin on the ritz...

[Seth]

Seth, I don't know where you get your 'facts' from, but you're an idiot.

Go fuck yourself.

In case you didn't notice, the new 'government' of the Ukraine is illegitimate, the legitimate government of the Crimea asked for Russian protection, the Crimean government has voted to join the Russian Federation.

Er, last I heard Crimea was part of Ukraine and therefore the "Crimean government" had no authority to join the Russian federation. And since there was no violence ongoing in Crimea at the time, there was no need for "protection" from Putin. The Putin Puppets probably produced a putsch.

The western coup didn't go as planned, the neo-nazis took it over, and now the west is caught with its pants down in a situation where they can neither intervene militarily nor economically and their proposed puppets have already been subverted. It's a cock-up of monumental proportions that really looks good on the hypocritical US foreign department.

I don't know where you get your fact, but you're an idiot. The US had nothing whatever to do with the events in Ukraine. Only an idiot would try to blame the US for it.