Unarmed teen shooting: Is Florida law to blame?

[Coito ergo sum]

That isn't true. The special prosecutor in her presentation yesterday stated unequivocally that the local Sanford police were investigating the crime, and that it is not at all unusual for it to take weeks to make an arrest.

well that would make sense if there was a question of who needs to be arrested. zimmerman admitted he killed martin. that in itself should have been the cause for arrest and jailed possibly bonded until trial to see if he's guilty of anything or not.

That isn't correct, and the prosecutor in her presentation explained that too. That is your misconception.

Zimmerman is not the only person who hasn't been arrested immediately in a self-defense situation. Not by a long shot. That is one of the areas where you're just dead wrong. You think that "that in itself should have been cause for an arrest" and you are wrong about that, and prosecutor yesterday explained in great detail why that is.

again, that would be the case in where the person denied any wrong doing, but zimmerman admitted of killing martin. what's there to question?

Killing in self-defense is not wrongdoing. People are very often investigated prior to arrest in such cases.

[Coito ergo sum]

This prosecutor is from the same organisation. She's not going to say anything that makes the original prosecutor, or police chief look bad. She's going to have to work with them, and what's her chances of advancement, if she slags off her own department?

She's saying EXACTLY what I expected her to say.

How the fuck can people not see that?

That is nonsense. The special prosecutor is appointed by the Governor. The original prosecutor resigned from the case well before she was appointed. The police are local, municipal cops, and State prosecutors will prosecute them without hesitation. The special prosecutor doesn't care if Sanford police "look bad."

She is not part of the Sanford police department and doesn't answer to the sheriff.

[Coito ergo sum]

His demeanor on the phone, judging from the 911 tapes and the transcripts of his previous calls, was measured and calm. He was not raving, frothing at the mouth or hurling racial epithets.

And you perceive this tone of voice as innocence ?

To me it sounds like he's talking to the dispatcher, even toned, and wheeling/spinning other ideas in his mind at the same time.

One could say the same thing about you. Not saying anything racist, that means one is racist. Not frothing at the mouth, that means one is scheming. Measured and calm, that means one is up to no good.

In other words, there is no behavior of Zimmerman that would suggest to you that he wasn't up to no good, even behavior that generally indicates that one is not up to no good. The fact that he sounds like he's not up to no good shows he is up to no good.

Bottom line is zimmermen started the wheels in motion when he determined in his mind that martin looked suspicious, on drugs, or a robber.

Really? If you see someone and they look suspicious, and you call the police, you are doing something wrong? From the word-go, you're at fault for whatever follows because you just set the wheels in motion?

With this kind of thoughts in motion it escallated into full confrontation with Martin, ending with Martin dead.

Zimmerman cannot take back the time and say "ughh I didn't mean it to end this way"! Too late. It did.

According to witnesses that were closest to the area (right in their back yard) they said it was a young boys voice yelling for help and not zimmermans and after the shot heard the help yelling stopped immediately.

They came out and asked what's going on? They saw zimmerman on top of martin, martin face down.

That is disputed by other evidence.

We'll see what shakes out at trial.

Now, remember, the audio experts did not come forward about the audiotape not being Zimmerman screaming on, like, April 1. So, on the issue of cause for arrest, that is fairly recent. I suspect that that audio evidence is part of what they based the Capias on.

[kiki5711]

Really? If you see someone and they look suspicious, and you call the police, you are doing something wrong? From the word-go, you're at fault for whatever follows because you just set the wheels in motion?

Your talking as if every situation is the same.

I'm talking about zimmeman and his decision/perception, that ended in a boy's death for nothing.

You can't just think everyone that looks suspicious is up to something or is on drugs. That's rediculous.

What was it about martin that made zimmerman think he's acting suspicious or is up to no good or is on drugs?

[mistermack]

This prosecutor is from the same organisation. She's not going to say anything that makes the original prosecutor, or police chief look bad. She's going to have to work with them, and what's her chances of advancement, if she slags off her own department?

She's saying EXACTLY what I expected her to say.

How the fuck can people not see that?

That is nonsense. The special prosecutor is appointed by the Governor. The original prosecutor resigned from the case well before she was appointed. The police are local, municipal cops, and State prosecutors will prosecute them without hesitation. The special prosecutor doesn't care if Sanford police "look bad."

She is not part of the Sanford police department and doesn't answer to the sheriff.

All of that is bollocks that came out of your own head. You seem to have no idea of how politicians think or operate.
like everything else.

Svartalf told you, on page 1 of this thread, the bleeding obvious fact that this was a case of murder 2.
If you paid attention to what you're told now and then, you wouldn't keep getting it wrong.

It was obvious then, it's obvious now, but you constantly have trouble with the obvious, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised any more.

[Coito ergo sum]

Really? If you see someone and they look suspicious, and you call the police, you are doing something wrong? From the word-go, you're at fault for whatever follows because you just set the wheels in motion?

Your talking as if every situation is the same.

I'm talking about zimmeman and his decision/perception, that ended in a boy's death for nothing.

So you say, based on your own suppositions, and certainly not based on the incontrovertible evidence.

You can't just think everyone that looks suspicious is up to something or is on drugs. That's rediculous.

You can't just think that everyone who exits their vehicle to look into something suspicious is doing something wrong.

I don't think that everyone who looks suspicious is up to something or on drugs.

[quote="kiki5711"

What was it about martin that made zimmerman think he's acting suspicious or is up to no good or is on drugs?[/quote]

Didn't he explain that to the dispatcher? We have his words at the time.

[laklak]

All of that is bollocks that came out of your own head. You seem to have no idea of how politicians think or operate.
like everything else.

Svartalf told you, on page 1 of this thread, the bleeding obvious fact that this was a case of murder 2.
If you paid attention to what you're told now and then, you wouldn't keep getting it wrong.

No, you're wrong here, you do not understand the structure and political relationships between the various Florida and Federal law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies involved here. Since CES (and I, for that matter) actually live in the area perhaps if you paid attention to what you're told now and then you wouldn't keep getting it wrong.

[Warren Dew]

Alan Dershowitz, famous for advising the OJ Simpson legal defense team, weighs in:

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/harvard-prof ... unethical/

At least he's even handed with respect to blacks and hispanics.

[Warren Dew]

Couple this with the charge, 2nd degree murder, which is notoriously difficult to prove because it all hinges on his state of mind. It's a relatively small step from "in the heat of the moment" to "in fear for his life", isn't it? The special prosecutor is a bit dodgy too, she's been accused of grandstanding several times and has a reputation for draconian tactics. She was last seen demanding the death penalty for a 12 year old girl, not exactly the paragon of prosecutorial probity we probably need in a case this notorious.

Do you have a link for the latter? The best I can find is her charging a 12 year old boy as an adult and seeking a life sentence without parole, which is granted still pretty unusual.

[Tyrannical]

Zimmerman is starting to look a lot less White

[kiki5711]

What was it about martin that made zimmerman think he's acting suspicious or is up to no good or is on drugs?

Didn't he explain that to the dispatcher? We have his words at the time.

yea he did, "he's walking about, looking like he's up to no good, maybe on drugs or something, acting very suspicious"

martin was walking and talking on the phone. how in god's name does that interpret immediately to suspicion? this sounds like borderline szchicho/paranoia at the least. zimmerman never said "he's peeking in to windows, hopping from one house to another checking the houses out or such like statement. He just said he's walking and to him that looked suspicious. What was it, the hoodie cover? black guy WITH a hoodie cover walking thorough mostly white neighborhood? what was martin doing that was suspicious?

NOTHING!

It was all in zimmermans mind.

[Tyrannical]

What was it about martin that made zimmerman think he's acting suspicious or is up to no good or is on drugs?

Didn't he explain that to the dispatcher? We have his words at the time.

yea he did, "he's walking about, looking like he's up to no good, maybe on drugs or something, acting very suspicious"

martin was walking and talking on the phone. how in god's name does that interpret immediately to suspicion? this sounds like borderline szchicho/paranoia at the least. zimmerman never said "he's peeking in to windows, hopping from one house to another checking the houses out or such like statement. He just said he's walking and to him that looked suspicious. What was it, the hoodie cover? black guy WITH a hoodie cover walking thorough mostly white neighborhood? what was martin doing that was suspicious?

NOTHING!

It was all in zimmermans mind.

Trayvon was cutting through people's front / backyard, exactly what you'd expect of a burglar scouting houses to rob. Remember that Zimmerman was right about Trayvon, he was a thief.

[amused]

Trayvon's past history is irrelevant, Zimmerman can't be judge, jury, and executioner.

[mistermack]

All of that is bollocks that came out of your own head. You seem to have no idea of how politicians think or operate.
like everything else.

Svartalf told you, on page 1 of this thread, the bleeding obvious fact that this was a case of murder 2.
If you paid attention to what you're told now and then, you wouldn't keep getting it wrong.

No, you're wrong here, you do not understand the structure and political relationships between the various Florida and Federal law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies involved here. Since CES (and I, for that matter) actually live in the area perhaps if you paid attention to what you're told now and then you wouldn't keep getting it wrong.

You live there, so you know better eh? There's a fail in there somewhere, on the logic test.
The other glaring flaw in your argument is that I got it RIGHT, from my first post. I consistently said that he should have been charged straight away.
And if he had been, it would have been better for everybody, even Zimmerman.

[mozg]

I think you totally missed my point.

My meaning is that 'obeying' or 'disobeying' the 911 dispatcher is totally irrelevant.

What the 911 dispatcher tells a citizen to do is not a lawful order. The 911 dispatcher is not in a position to give callers orders that must be followed.

So whether Zimmerman did or didn't 'obey' the dispatcher is utterly immaterial to me.