Another London terror attack

[JimC]

Animavore wrote:
Well when they start sending Muslims into camps and committing genocide we'll kill those Nazi-types when the time comes and reset the World again.

Grandiose and fantastic hyperbole from the left, equally absurd as Dave the Dodo's similar hyperbole from the right...

The reality could easily be you joining the muslims in a camp...

Either way, it is the extremes we need to avoid, which won't happen when left and right push each other into more and more absurd positions...

[pErvinalia]

And it won't be enough until they have cleansed their house of the scum within it.

This is just a ridiculous demand. And one which easily applies to any group. You could say to white Americans to cleanse the house of the scum within it. Given that white terrorists are the biggest threat. Instead a proportion of Americans have actively voted in the scum holding no accountability to themselves.

The British and the Americans have both recently made multi-billion dollar arms deal with the main source of Islamic terrorist funding. Where are all the white people making citizens arrests on Trump and May for treason?

Even if a group of Muslims pulled someone up to the cop station and told them he was a potential terrorist because he was spouting hate speech, how would they prove he was dong more than just talking? Do you think Muslims know where all the cells, safe houses and hideouts are? Do you expect some Muslims to take it upon themselves to infiltrate possible terrorist groups at their own risks for the purpose of exposing them?

[Animavore]

Animavore wrote:
Well when they start sending Muslims into camps and committing genocide we'll kill those Nazi-types when the time comes and reset the World again.

Grandiose and fantastic hyperbole from the left, equally absurd as Dave the Dodo's similar hyperbole from the right...

The reality could easily be you joining the muslims in a camp...

Either way, it is the extremes we need to avoid, which won't happen when left and right push each other into more and more absurd positions...

I don't think it's too absurd, given the massive inequality, the rise of populism, hatred, and fear, that history will repeat itself.

The last time inequality was this bad was in 1910. Two World Wars sorted that right out. For a time.

Do you know who else has made unrealistic demands off Muslims that they police themselves? Donald Trump. That puts you more inline with the populists than people looking for realistic solutions.

[rainbow]

Labour says the cut in officer numbers, by around 20,000 since the Tories took power, made it harder for community police to nip potential extremism in the bud.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/t ... g-10562666

[NineBerry]

How long has the West to live with the daily numerous murderous traffic incidents all over the world? When will the alcohol drinking community finally clean out to their own house and deal with those alcohol drinkers who will drive when under influence?!?

[NineBerry]

Btw, We already know that one of the Paris attackers had been known to the authorities and been reported on by the community. Let's see what we'll find out about the other two.

[Hermit]

So, we simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and simply say that nasty white terrorists are doing it too, so don't put pressure on the poor misunderstood muslims...

WTF? We do not simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and we, and they, manifestly don't. You obviously have not followed up my suggestion to familiarise yourself with the extraordinary powers the anti-terrorist legislations of various countries now allow for, even though I gave you a link to ours here in Australia. Had you clicked on it, you would have discovered that habeas corpus has been watered down, surveillance has been made easier and a whole raft of other measures have been taken to specifically fight Muslim terrorism. You also plainly have trouble accepting that Muslim communities will dob in terrorists, provided that they can detect or suspect them. Your attitude is safe from change brought about by facts because you simply ignore or dismiss them. Just now you are a textbook example of Why Facts don't change our Minds.

[NineBerry]

The attacker in Australia was also known to the authorities. He was wearing an electronic tracking device. Had been in prison recently. Also seems to have been a drug abusers. All from the article on The Age.

[Rum]

Well there is a lot that can be done and IS done. It was reported that between the two recent attacks five other plots were disrupted and nipped in the bud. Given the large numbers of people who are potential jihadists it isn't a bad record. I'm not suggesting it is acceptable, but the reality is that if we want to be more effective they are going to have to do some radical thinking.

[JimC]

So, we simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and simply say that nasty white terrorists are doing it too, so don't put pressure on the poor misunderstood muslims...

WTF? We do not simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and we, and they, manifestly don't. You obviously have not followed up my suggestion to familiarise yourself with the extraordinary powers the anti-terrorist legislations of various countries now allow for, even though I gave you a link to ours here in Australia. Had you clicked on it, you would have discovered that habeas corpus has been watered down, surveillance has been made easier and a whole raft of other measures have been taken to specifically fight Muslim terrorism. You also plainly have trouble accepting that Muslim communities will dob in terrorists, provided that they can detect or suspect them. Your attitude is safe from change brought about by facts because you simply ignore or dismiss them. Just now you are a textbook example of Why Facts don't change our Minds.

Again, fuck off with the personal stuff, Hermit. Stick to debating the ideas...

[JimC]

The attacker in Australia was also known to the authorities. He was wearing an electronic tracking device. Had been in prison recently. Also seems to have been a drug abusers. All from the article on The Age.

That is true, and is indicative that authorities need to be a little harsher about potential terrorists, as well as being less lenient about parole laws (a whole extra debate in Oz at the moment). Having a criminal background is not grounds for saying "see, it's not those poor misunderstood muslims at all..."

[JimC]

Well there is a lot that can be done and IS done. It was reported that between the two recent attacks five other plots were disrupted and nipped in the bud. Given the large numbers of people who are potential jihadists it isn't a bad record. I'm not suggesting it is acceptable, but the reality is that if we want to be more effective they are going to have to do some radical thinking.

A fair point, Rum. I'm not saying that the authorities are hopeless, let's simply do the most extreme stuff we can think of. I'm simply saying that we cannot be satisfied with saying "we're doing everything that could possibly be done, the rest is up to fate..." Without going to right wing extremes, surely with some increased resources, lateral thinking and more effective support from moderate muslims we can both reduce the probability of future attacks, and reduce the chances of populist demands for extreme solutions...

[NineBerry]

The threat posed is simply not high enough to do more extreme stuff. As I alluded to previously: A lot more people die in traffic every day. Three people die in traffic accidents EVERY DAY in Australia. As someone riding the bike every day, also in the evening and night, I am much more likely to be killed by drunk driver running me over than by some terrorist and yet I do not ask for alcohol to be banned or families of careless drivers to be incarcerated or bars to be closed when some driver who had a drink at that bar then goes on to murder some person on the street by driving over them.

People die every day. The number of people dying from terror in the West is minimal. It just makes such a big splash because there is a lot of media coverage. The only meaningful effect terror has on society is derived from society's reaction. If we didn't react that hysterical, it would not have much of an effect.

[pErvinalia]

. The only meaningful effect terror has on society is derived from society's reaction. If we didn't react that hysterical, it would not have much of an effect.

[Hermit]

So, we simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and simply say that nasty white terrorists are doing it too, so don't put pressure on the poor misunderstood muslims...

WTF? We do not simply have to passively accept that there is nothing that we or the islamic community itself can do to weed out the murderous scum who are killing people, and we, and they, manifestly don't. You obviously have not followed up my suggestion to familiarise yourself with the extraordinary powers the anti-terrorist legislations of various countries now allow for, even though I gave you a link to ours here in Australia. Had you clicked on it, you would have discovered that habeas corpus has been watered down, surveillance has been made easier and a whole raft of other measures have been taken to specifically fight Muslim terrorism. You also plainly have trouble accepting that Muslim communities will dob in terrorists, provided that they can detect or suspect them. Your attitude is safe from change brought about by facts because you simply ignore or dismiss them. Just now you are a textbook example of Why Facts don't change our Minds.

Again, fuck off with the personal stuff, Hermit. Stick to debating the ideas...

I stick to ideas, and they include what you are. I note you are not averse to telling me about your ideas of me. To wit:

...you are showing yourself as a blind PC lefty who has to tow the party line...

I think I am better at backing up my idea of you than you are at backing yours up of me. And I have not told you to fuck off. You've done that twice now. Makes it difficult to take the moral high ground, doesn't it? Unless you class "fuck off" as sticking to ideas, of course.