Paris Attacks latest updates

[JimC]

I want to see a Seth/Galaxian love child!

[Galaxian]

I want to see a Seth/Galaxian love child!

Here it is. Born this morning. Already breast feeding on Seth: Make a cute pair, don't they?

[Brian Peacock]

I vote we put the two of them in a locked room.

I think this, erm, interesting discussion should have its own thread as it's likely to run-and-run with both parties itching to get in the last, killer blow.

And here's a smiley for Jim :biggin:

[Hermit]

I think this, erm, interesting discussion should have its own thread as it's likely to run-and-run with both parties itching to get in the last, killer blow.

And here's a smiley for Jim :biggin:

And this is the most suitable section to place it.

[Seth]

(Police Commissioner Helric Fredou")...indicate that you've been out of touch with current affairs at least since 2001. Just come clean; exactly who are you & what's your agenda?

While described as being depressive and suffering from a burnout, police reports state that Helric Fredou’s suicide was totally unexpected.

Suicide (like the Spanish Inquisition) is usually "totally unexpected" because if it was expected, those who expect it would take action to put the individual into mental health care, particularly a police officer in France.

You're just spouting coincidental conspiracy theories that have absolutely no evidence that the suicide was related to the attacks, much less intended to cover something up. Like what, pray tell. He wasn't the ONLY investigator, he was, by your own citation, waiting for A TEAM of investigators to come back. What happened to the team members, did they commit suicide too? Is there a shred of evidence that the team or their supervisor, discovered something that the French government, or some shadowy conspiracy wanted covered up? Nothing is said about the results of the team's investigations being suppressed.

It's all unfounded lunacy you're spouting and there's no reason to give it credence. Which doesn't mean you might not be right, but you've got a long way to go to prove that beyond the suicide of an already-depressed cop who probably decided that he just couldn't take it anymore, as millions of people do every year.

[Seth]

Your off-the-cuff dismissal of witness evidence & any unofficial, but rational explanation, all the way from your first reply to the last;

You have not provided one single shred of evidence, much less a "rational explanation." There is no reason to believe anything other than that the Islamic terrorists involved shot up the newspaper for exactly the reasons they said they did, and you have not shown any evidence to the contrary.

[Galaxian]

(Police Commissioner Helric Fredou")...indicate that you've been out of touch with current affairs at least since 2001. Just come clean; exactly who are you & what's your agenda?

I

While described as being depressive and suffering from a burnout, police reports state that Helric Fredou’s suicide was totally unexpected.

Suicide (like the Spanish Inquisition) is usually "totally unexpected" because if it was expected, those who expect it would take action to put the individual into mental health care, particularly a police officer in France.
You're just spouting coincidental conspiracy theories that have absolutely no evidence that the suicide was related to the attacks, much less intended to cover something up. Like what, pray tell. He wasn't the ONLY investigator, he was, by your own citation, waiting for A TEAM of investigators to come back. What happened to the team members, did they commit suicide too? Is there a shred of evidence that the team or their supervisor, discovered something that the French government, or some shadowy conspiracy wanted covered up? Nothing is said about the results of the team's investigations being suppressed.
It's all unfounded lunacy you're spouting and there's no reason to give it credence. Which doesn't mean you might not be right, but you've got a long way to go to prove that beyond the suicide of an already-depressed cop who probably decided that he just couldn't take it anymore, as millions of people do every year.

I fail to see what is the relevance of the Spanish Inquisition to suicide. Perhaps it illustrates your methodology in analysis... which is a sad indictment & explains how you use repeated "coincidences" as apologia for dictatorial malfeasance.
And exactly how do a few enlightened individuals, who are not interested in power & are not psychopathic megalomaniacs, how "would [they] take action to put the individual into mental health care". Aren't such trouble makers simply done away with? ...Oh, I forgot, they simply "commit suicide". Then you'll fob-off their elimination as suicide due to depression. Yeah, whatever.
Your cognitive dissonance precludes the possibility that you can be anything other than an apologist for the establishment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqqVD4aFWZ4

[Seth]

te]I

While described as being depressive and suffering from a burnout, police reports state that Helric Fredou’s suicide was totally unexpected.

Suicide (like the Spanish Inquisition) is usually "totally unexpected" because if it was expected, those who expect it would take action to put the individual into mental health care, particularly a police officer in France.

I fail to see what is the relevance of the Spanish Inquisition to suicide. Perhaps it illustrates your methodology in analysis... which is a sad indictment & explains how you use repeated "coincidences" as apologia for dictatorial malfeasance.

Actually, it's a Monty Python reference...

And exactly how do a few enlightened individuals, who are not interested in power & are not psychopathic megalomaniacs, how "would [they] take action to put the individual into mental health care". Aren't such trouble makers simply done away with? ...Oh, I forgot, they simply "commit suicide". Then you'll fob-off their elimination as suicide due to depression. Yeah, whatever.

Um, they are called "friends, family and co-workers" and they express concern for the individual's mental health if and when he expresses suicidal ideation, at which point usually a mental health professional or a police officer will evaluate the person to see if he is an imminent risk to himself or others and will involuntarily hold them for professional evaluation if the individual appears to be suicidal. The reason that police suicides are so "unexpected" is that police officers who are in mental jeopardy, in particular, carefully conceal their intentions and their distressed mental state because depression and suicidal ideation in a law enforcement officer is a career-ending illness. Once tagged as a potential suicide, even if it's situational and not organic, the officer will be removed from duty and may lose his job and will never be able to work in law enforcement again. Here in the US, if a police officer succumbs to depression and stress and demonstrates suicidal tendencies and is therefore involuntarily committed to a mental health institution federal gun control laws make him a prohibited person who can never possess a firearm again, for life, and therefore his chosen career is over, even if he gets help, conquers the issues that caused the depression, and is given a clean bill of health by his doctors.

And that is precisely why police officers carefully conceal both stress and depression from everyone, most specifically their employers, and will go to extraordinary lengths if they DO seek help to seek it from a mental health professional in no way associated with the department they work for, and often under an agreement of anonymity where they pay in cash for the counseling and refuse to provide their name or other personal information, which severely limits the amount of help they can get because if they give their real name in order to be prescribed anti-depression medications that information gets into state and federal databases where it can potentially destroy the individual's career.

The same is true of other occupations, including airline pilots, as shown in the case of the guy who crashed the airliner deliberately who had been under psychiatric care for years but that fact was entirely unknown to his employers.

Mental health issues have such a strong stigma that revealing them can easily destroy someone's life and career, so people don't seek help when they should and then it becomes too late and they are trapped in an ever-descending spiral of depression and suicidal ideation that they cannot stop but cannot admit to anyone, and therefore cannot get treatment for.

Eventually, as in this case, the burden becomes too much and the individual just ends it. And while it comes as a surprise to everyone around him, it's no surprise at all in reality because he's been suffering for years or decades without help, as seems to be the case with this guy based on the information you cited describing him as a depressive personality.

So there is the probable explanation that meets the Ockham's Razor test for simplicity over conspiracy.

Unless you can somehow show that his "assassination" in fact covered up something the people who killed him wanted covered up, which you have not, the above is almost certainly the explanation.

Oh, by the way, conspiratorial paranoia is a clinical sign of serious mental illness. Just saying...

[rachelbean]

Suicide (like the Spanish Inquisition) is usually "totally unexpected" because if it was expected, those who expect it would take action to put the individual into mental health care, particularly a police officer in France.

I fail to see what is the relevance of the Spanish Inquisition to suicide. Perhaps it illustrates your methodology in analysis... which is a sad indictment & explains how you use repeated "coincidences" as apologia for dictatorial malfeasance.

Actually, it's a Monty Python reference...

[Rum]

Suicide (like the Spanish Inquisition) is usually "totally unexpected" because if it was expected, those who expect it would take action to put the individual into mental health care, particularly a police officer in France.

I fail to see what is the relevance of the Spanish Inquisition to suicide. Perhaps it illustrates your methodology in analysis... which is a sad indictment & explains how you use repeated "coincidences" as apologia for dictatorial malfeasance.

Actually, it's a Monty Python reference...

Monty Pythons was a British (and therefore communist) programme and almost certainly a conspiracy too, so...

[Hermit]

Seth needs to be put in the comfy chair.



And now for something not quite completely different:

[Scot Dutchy]

Paris attacks: Police in deadly swoop on apartment in northern suburb

Armed police have raided a flat in the north Paris suburb of Saint Denis in an operation linked to Friday's attacks.

A woman blew herself up with a suicide belt, a prosecutor says. Some reports suggested two suspects died. Several explosions and gunfire were heard. The operation is said to be ongoing.

Five people have also been arrested.

The focus of the operation is reported to be Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the alleged mastermind of the Islamic State-claimed attacks that killed 129 people.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34853657

I am not surprised he is still in Paris probably planning a second attack.

[Galaxian]

So, after burning some bandwidth over equating a skit in Monty Python's Flying Circus to suicide, we finally get to this:

So there is the probable explanation that meets the Ockham's Razor test for simplicity over conspiracy.

As Oscar Wilde observed “To lose one parent may be regarded as a misfortune; to lose both looks like carelessness.”
We may add that to have a succession of unlikely or impossible events smells of planned outcome.
Infact, so many lies have been admitted to by government, after the obligatory 20, 30, 50, 100 year waiting period, that among well informed & intelligent beings, the default position is now: most things that governments say about important matters must be assumed to be lies unless & until proven otherwise.
So it's not up to Galaxian to prove otherwise. It is for Seth to prove that it was suicide... since you weren't even aware of his death, & accused me of making it up... See your earlier post. So that indicates the lamentably poor level of your familiarity with what is actually going on.
Having mentioned the decades that governments keep things locked up -Official Secrets Act, etc- and the difficulty the public has in extracting them. Then finding that most of it is redacted. That is a blatant admission by governments that they lie profusely & have lots of things to hide:

Oh, by the way, conspiratorial paranoia is a clinical sign of serious mental illness. Just saying...

Just keep on saying, because, as usual, the facts are against you, but you need to be comforted by propaganda presstitute fairy tales:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/11 ... ists-sane/
"Researchers — psychologists and social scientists, mostly — in the U.S. and United Kingdom say data indicate that, contrary to those mainstream media stereotypes, “conspiracy theorists” appear to be more sane than people who accept official versions of controversial and contested events.

The most recent study was published in July 2013 by psychologists Michael J. Wood and Karen M. Douglas of the University of Kent in the UK. Entitled “‘What about Building 7?’ A Social Psychological Study of Online Discussion of 9/11 Conspiracy Theories,” the study compared “conspiracist,” or pro-conspiracy theory, and “conventionalist,” or anti-conspiracy, comments on news websites.

The researchers noted that they were surprised to find that it is now more conventional to leave so-called conspiracist comments than conventional ones.

“Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist,” the researchers wrote.

‘The research showed that people who favored the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile’

So, among people who comment on news articles, those who discount official government accounts of events like the 9/11 attacks and the assassination of John F. Kennedy outnumber believers by more than two-to-one. That means the pro-conspiracy commenters are those who are now expressing what is considered conventional wisdom, while the anti-conspiracy commenters represent a small, beleaguered minority that is often scoffed at and shunned.

Perhaps becoming frustrated that their alleged mainstream viewpoints are no longer considered as such by the majority, those who are anti-conspiracy commenters often showed anger and disgust in their posts.

“The research… showed that people who favored the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile when trying to persuade their rivals,” said the study.

Also, it seems that those who do not believe in the conspiracies were not just hostile but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. The researchers said that, according to the anti-conspiracy holders, their own theory of 9/11 — one which says 19 Muslims, none of whom could fly commercial airliners with any proficiency, pulled off an amazing surprise attack under the direction of a man on dialysis (Osama bin Laden) who was living in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan — is unwaveringly true.

You may also care to visit these links (not that it'll do any good):

http://www.globalresearch.ca/rethinking ... es/5414471
http://www.globalresearch.ca/mainstream ... es/5442318
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/10/21 ... coalition/

[Seth]

We may add that to have a succession of unlikely or impossible events smells of planned outcome.

Are you calling an Islamist terrorist attack on France "unlikely or impossible?"

Infact, so many lies have been admitted to by government, after the obligatory 20, 30, 50, 100 year waiting period, that among well informed & intelligent beings, the default position is now: most things that governments say about important matters must be assumed to be lies unless & until proven otherwise.

Skepticism of government is always a good thing, but there's skepticism and then there's pathological paranoia.

So it's not up to Galaxian to prove otherwise. It is for Seth to prove that it was suicide... since you weren't even aware of his death, & accused me of making it up...

Actually, I do recall hearing about it some time ago, during the Charlie Hebdo mess, but I put it out my mind because I don't have room for idiot conspiracy theories, and yes, it is still up to you to prove your case because your above argument is nothing more than a fallacious appeal to incredulity.

See your earlier post. So that indicates the lamentably poor level of your familiarity with what is actually going on.

I should care that a French policeman killed himself? Why? It's unfortunate but it's hardly indicative of some grand conspiratorial scheme to conceal something...a something which you have yet to even identify much less prove exists or was being covered up, or why.

Having mentioned the decades that governments keep things locked up -Official Secrets Act, etc- and the difficulty the public has in extracting them. Then finding that most of it is redacted. That is a blatant admission by governments that they lie profusely & have lots of things to hide:

Well, yes, governments DO have lots of things to hide, which is why they have systems for classifying documents and information because you, the conspiracy-minded average citizen have no need to know these things, and if you did, people would die as a result, as they have been doing since Snowden did his thing. What on earth makes you think that you have a right, much less a need to know everything that a government agency knows? Here's a clue: you don't.

Oh, by the way, conspiratorial paranoia is a clinical sign of serious mental illness. Just saying...

Just keep on saying, because, as usual, the facts are against you, but you need to be comforted by propaganda presstitute fairy tales:
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/11 ... ists-sane/
"Researchers — psychologists and social scientists, mostly — in the U.S. and United Kingdom say data indicate that, contrary to those mainstream media stereotypes, “conspiracy theorists” appear to be more sane than people who accept official versions of controversial and contested events.

The most recent study was published in July 2013 by psychologists Michael J. Wood and Karen M. Douglas of the University of Kent in the UK. Entitled “‘What about Building 7?’ A Social Psychological Study of Online Discussion of 9/11 Conspiracy Theories,” the study compared “conspiracist,” or pro-conspiracy theory, and “conventionalist,” or anti-conspiracy, comments on news websites.

The researchers noted that they were surprised to find that it is now more conventional to leave so-called conspiracist comments than conventional ones.

“Of the 2174 comments collected, 1459 were coded as conspiracist and 715 as conventionalist,” the researchers wrote.

‘The research showed that people who favored the official account of 9/11 were generally more hostile’

Well obviously these researchers are delusional conspiracy theorist nutcases themselves. The reason that you see more "conspiracist" comments now than before is because there was not a government conspiracy and the actors, their motivations and their mechanisms have been thoroughly investigated and proven with scientific rigor and so "conventionalists" don't comment anymore because they know what the truth is and choose not to engage the persistent nutbars who think something nefarious is still going on, whereas the nutcase paranoid delusional psychotic conspiracy theorists cling to their delusions like a life-ring and repeated them endlessly to one another in the comments sections in order to keep their psychosis going because they just can't bring themselves to believe the truth which is that a bunch of camel-fucking, grasshopper eating raghead daughter-fuckers rammed three aircraft into stuff in the US at the command of another, now deceased, daughter-fucking raghead asswipe.

Also, it seems that those who do not believe in the conspiracies were not just hostile but fanatically attached to their own conspiracy theories as well. The researchers said that, according to the anti-conspiracy holders, their own theory of 9/11 — one which says 19 Muslims, none of whom could fly commercial airliners with any proficiency, pulled off an amazing surprise attack under the direction of a man on dialysis (Osama bin Laden) who was living in a cave somewhere in Afghanistan — is unwaveringly true.

Actually the pilots involved got what training they needed, some from primary flight schools in the US and some from flight simulator computer programs, both of which provide adequate training to drive an airliner into a building once it's off the ground and enroute, which is exactly where they took over the planes. Flying an airliner is just like flying a Cessna, only bigger. All you have to do is keep the airspeed above stall and know how to manipulate the rudders, elevators and ailerons to a minimal degree and have a bit of proficiency at reading an air navigation chart to find your target. It's not like the Twin Towers or the Pentagon are exactly hard to find. I know a fifteen year old kid who could do it. He might have trouble getting the aircraft off the ground, and definitely would have trouble landing it without help, but fly it into a building? Child's play. And less you think I'm stating an argument by authority fallacy I'm not, I'm a commercially-rated multi-engine instrument pilot, so unlike you, I actually DO know what the hell I'm talking about.

And being on dialysis doesn't prevent someone from planning military actions, and in case you missed it he wasn't in a cave until AFTER the 9/11 attacks, when we went after him. Indeed, for most of that time he wasn't in a cave at all, he was in a house in Abbatobad, Pakistan, where we eventually found and killed him.

As to "unwaveringly true" who knows? I'm sure there's plenty of classified information about the whole shebang that doesn't need to be released and which would cause harm to covert agents and assets if it were released. That's something that Edward Snowden has done and hundreds of covert assets have been killed as a result of his compromising their security for no good reason at all.

Which makes it fucking tough to recruit new assets to assist us in preventing terrorist attacks.

Go take your lithium and anti-psychotics, you really need to stay on your meds.

[Scot Dutchy]

Talk about derailing!