And this is WHY we carry them...

[Tero]

It's the opposite of vaccinations. More vaccinations, more people survive.

More guns, more people are shot dead. Who are shot? People, amateurs. Career criminals, rapists and murderers are most often not shot. They already know Seth has a gun, they will not approach you.

[MrJonno]

I'm quite sure that neither that squaddie nor any of the sheeple standing around filming the event had the slightest notion that such a thing could happen to them, around them, or in their (unarmed) country.

I sure they were aware of the tiny possibility and being sensible just don't care, an aircraft just flew over my head as they regularly do living about 2 miles from a major airport and didn't crash on me. Am I aware that sometimes they do crash sure, do I give a fuck no.

If you want to be charge of your own survival go live on a desert island

[Fallible]

Yeah, people get their heads sawn off all the time here. Honestly Seth, you come across like a loony.

Um, no, but people are criminally assaulted in the US and use their legal firearms to defend against such attacks between 80,000 and 2.5 million times a year, depending on who you believe, whereas nobody in the UK can defend themselves with effective weapons of self defense against even the simplest assault,

You really should stop making comments about the UK because you show yourself over and over again to not have the faintest fucking idea what you're talking about. I can defend myself against attack using anything I can get hold of, but unlike the US - pay attention Einstein, because this is important - even the fucking criminals here are highly unlikely to be packing heat, and so I don't need a gun for defending myself against criminals. You delude yourself if you think that having a gun on you will always stop you from being attacked.

much less two determined terrorists intent on sawing your head off.

I must be psychic because I'd already worked out you were going to try to use that unique event in any 'argument'. I will never in my entire life be deliberately knocked down by a car and then while unconscious be almost decapitated by two members of a terrorist organisation who had picked me out as a squaddie beforehand due to me having left a barracks earlier and being seen making my way back there wearing a Help for Heroes hoodie. This will never happen to me. Now over there, you might be reasonably justified in living your life like a commando hermit expecting head-removing jihadists to crash through your window at any moment, I don't know, but where I live we're really not. A woman got killed by a tiger here a few months back too, but similarly, I don't feel justified in carrying round equipment to prevent a tiger attack whenever I leave the house. If I were to guess, I'd have to say that you definitely aren't justified and that you either live in some fantasy world of your own creation or pretend that you do in order to have something to shout about on the internet.

I'm quite sure that neither that squaddie nor any of the sheeple standing around filming the event had the slightest notion that such a thing could happen to them, around them, or in their (unarmed) country.

Nobody expects such a rare event to happen to them except from perhaps you and a few nutters, and I must say Seth that you appear to put even more store in the utility of guns and knives than I thought if you truly think that Lee Rigby could have used his to prevent two men in a car from running him over from behind, rendering him unconscious. As I said, you come across like a loony.

They were wrong.

Whereas you're not even wrong, first for using an exceedingly rare event which will never happen to the vast, vast majority of people in order to try to show why knives and guns are a good idea, and second for either being unaware of, or deliberately glossing over, the facts of that incident in order to make it look like all the 'sheeple' (several of whom actually covered Rigby's body with their own and stood arguing with the two idiots waving their meat cleavers around about what they'd done - yeah, real servile, cowardly people) needed to do to prevent it was...I dunno...wave their knives at he car once they'd telepathically realised what was about to transpire? You show precious little sign of having thought this through, Seth. Are you suggesting that the 'sheeple' should have gone up to these cleaver-wielding fucksticks and produced their own knives? What can you possibly think the utility of that would have been? Just draw breath for a second and consider your words before regurgitating them in front of nice people.

So are you.

Lol, no. You're just getting yourself worked up for yet another rant on the internet about a topic you've shown yourself to know fuck-all about. On and on and on, Seth, for years, ranting on the internet about topics you could not have deliberately picked to better show your ignorance. Do you ever look back and think what you could have been doing with yourself in that time? I dunno, maybe we should all consider ourselves lucky that you've been inside fapping out your bullshit rather than on the streets with your boom sticks and scimitars.

If YOU are the one getting your head sawn off,

I'm not though and never will be. Your entire 'argument' rests on 'what ifs' that will never come to pass. I'm sure it's a fun exercise, but that's all it is.

do you think you might be hoping that someone like me just happens to be around to put a stop to it,

Yeah, about that. What exactly do you think you'd be able to do in that situation, Seth? Bearing in mind that the people who actually saw the fucksticks drive into Rigby and then get out to him at first thought that they were helping a road traffic accident victim? Because I'll tell you what you could have done that the 'sheeple' couldn't, shall I? Fuck all. You'd have been just the same as the rest of them, unaware of the true picture until his windpipe had been severed. You apparently see yourself as this valiant defender of freedom and justice, riding in to the aid of citizens in distress, piercing the bad guy through the heart with a single shot before twirling your pistol around on your index finger, holstering it and riding off into the sunset. In reality you'd be just as useless as anyone else, with the added possibility of you getting a bit too carried away with the adrenaline of the situation and your own bloated ego and harming someone else.

do you think you might be hoping that someone like me just happens to be around to put a stop to it,

Apparently you're deluded. Or so I will think until you can show me otherwise by presenting a reasoned argument showing how Seth the Sharp Shooter would put a stop to either the Lee Rigby situation or the me-getting-my-head-sawn-off situation.

or are you going to stand on your loony principles

Try and stay rational if you could, Seth. First you need to name these principles and then show RATIONALLY how they're loony. Only after that can we move on to what I might do in a cloud cuckoo land scenario in which I'm getting my head sawn off on the mean streets of Thatto Heath by Michael Adebowale and Michael Adebolajo.

and graciously accept having your head sawn off

When people pepper their posts with fallacies, this tells other people that they can't win an argument without them. This in turn tells them that they don't have a very good argument. Or are you in fact so stupid as to believe that because I don't think I need to walk around armed at all times that I must therefore graciously accept having my head sawn off in some Hollywood blockbuster scenario you seem convinced is a reasonably possible eventuality? Try and calm down.

because the principle of an unarmed citizenry is more important to you than your life?

Unfortunately you've eroded your credibility even further than it had previously been by relying on yet another fallacy. Nothing's more important to me than my own life, young Seth, apart from the lives of a very, very small number of loved ones, you've just made that up. And you really are completely off your rocker if you think that living in a society where people are not wandering around with guns and knives 24/7 means that we're all willingly acquiescing to decapitation.

Now it's possible that you might actually be an ethical pacifist and would do so.

Nope. Luckily, I'm very sure that nothing of the kind will ever happen to me so it literally doesn't matter.

There are examples of people who do loony stuff like burning themselves to death in protest of war, but somehow I doubt this applies to your shallow ideology.

Fallacy again, Seth, you really need to watch that, or else people will think your argument is too flimsy to stand up by itself.

So let's turn the screw a bit

Try not to get carried away, young Seth. There are newts currently residing in garden ponds capable of turning the screw more effectively than you.

and hypothesize that it's not you, but your fifteen year old daughter or son that is being hacked at, and perhaps raped as well. Or your wife. Or your best friend.

How far do your pacifist principles extend now? Will you stand by and loudly proclaim, "This rape and murder, as horrific as it is, must be endured for the sake of the nation in order to justify the government's decision to disarm all of us in order to make society safer!"

OK, this shows to me that either you've finally lost it, or you have no shame whatsoever and will use any and all fallacies in order to make it look like you have a shadow of a point to make. What you seem to have done here is got hold of a pretend person with a whole set of beliefs and are arguing with them about something you have imagined them to say. A crazy person, by the way, who would stand about calmly proclaiming things while a close relative was getting raped and murdered. Does such a person even exist? I suppose one might, but it sure as fuck ain't me. Straw men are fun to knock down, but when you do it as conspicuously as you do here, Seth, you shoot yourself in the foot rather because none but the most rabidly in love with your Yosemite Sam internet persona will bother to take you seriously. You lose any argument you take part in when you wheel out this crap.

You got the sand to live by your principles or are you just another gross hypocrite?

Oh Deidre love, calm down, make yourself a nice cup of tea and stroke a kitten for 20 minutes, then come back and re-read this silly nonsense. You're just making things up and attributing them to me. I'm not a pacifist, you've invented this position for me. You've wheeled out several fallacies and have lost by default. Sorry.

My guess is that you will be screaming and praying for someone like me with a gun to come along and put a stop to it,

Yeah - this is Fantasy Seth talking again. Let's see you post rationally, logically, without straw man arguments or shoe horning in or glossing over anything, showing how you rocking up with a gun to the Lee Rigby incident would have changed the outcome for the better. Until you do, you're just forcing steam out your blow hole, a rather boring and jaded display at this stage, seeing as how pretty much everyone across at least 3 internet fora has been watching you doing that for literally years without rest.

which coulda been you if you had the balls to stand up to your idiotic government and insist that they respect your rights.

Oops, showing yer ignorance and naivete again, young Seth. All this blather you give out about your rights, how the citizens of the UK are servile cowards who won't stand up to their government, how we're all under the thumb and you supposedly say it with a straight face, and yet there you are with your routinely armed police force who can shoot you stone cold dead at any time and you could do fuck-all about it, while the police here continue to reject carrying fire arms as a matter of course. Oh I know, I know, you'd suss out any dangerous situation with your supernatural abilities and then be ready with your gun. Do me a favour. If your government decided to squash you you'd be squashed, well and truly, without ceremony or preamble, boom sticks or no. You're gnats to them. If someone wanted you dead you'd be dead before you had a chance to get your responsibly stored gun, and there are certainly several million people who could get that done for you extremely easily, given the ubiquity of guns. That's why you think you need them in the first place - every bastard has arms or can get them, so you fear your government, you fear the police, you fear the guy walking down the street behind or towards you, you fear every bump in the night because a gun could be lurking around every corner. You dress this up and turn it around and try to say you're exercising your rights, but you're trapped, young Seth, by the very things which you think make you free. You can't or won't see it because you're in it. Those of us who aren't in it aren't fooled. You carry on fearing everyone, Seth, carry on fearing every bizarre, freak scenario. I can live without that kind of 'freedom'.

I fucking guarantee it in fact.

Watch out everyone, Seth guaranteed something on the internet. In fact he fucking guaranteed it. Oh well that's it then, end of argument. Come back when you've calmed down, and when you have a calm, reasonable argument to present instead of the spittle flecked rantings you have thus far presented. In the meantime, I do hope that you heed the very real threat of a 747 crashing down on you while you sleep and have set up home somewhere that planes never fly over and never venture anywhere under a flight path. If not, just what the fuck do you think you would do if you found yourself smeared over a wide area, stand about loudly proclaiming how this is a breach of your rights?

[MrJonno]

Watch out everyone, Seth guaranteed something on the internet. In fact he fucking guaranteed it. Oh well that's it then, end of argument. Come back when you've calmed down, and when you have a calm, reasonable argument to present instead of the spittle flecked rantings you have thus far presented. In the meantime, I do hope that you heed the very real threat of a 747 crashing down on you while you sleep and have set up home somewhere that planes never fly over and never venture anywhere under a flight path. If not, just what the fuck do you think you would do if you found yourself smeared over a wide area, stand about loudly proclaiming how this is a breach of your rights?

You are talking about someone who keeps a chemical warfare suit in case a train nearby with chemicals on crashes or Al Queda launched a nerve gas attack. We aren't talking about 'normal' (as in typical of the general population and in no way a personal attack implying a psychopath because that would be against the rules)

[Fallible]

Seriously? Oh well, scratch that then. I was assuming Seth was a normal person. My mistake.

[MrJonno]

Well to be fair if someone launches a nerve gas attack around him I'm going to be in the shit

[Fallible]

Well the important thing in that situation will be that Seth was right.

[MrJonno]

Bear in mind to show how far apart me and Seth are I won't drive a car as partly I consider it to be far too risky and partly I don't like travelling anywhere where I can't read a book. I think statistically it does make me safer but as I do go in cars as a passenger from time to time its not going to be that great

[Seth]

It's the opposite of vaccinations. More vaccinations, more people survive.

More guns, more people are shot dead. Who are shot? People, amateurs.

Really? How many? Who are they? What are the circumstances of the shootings? Please be specific and cite names, dates and locations, along with report numbers so your information can be verified.

Career criminals, rapists and murderers are most often not shot.

Actually they get shot all the time, or they get run off by someone with a gun and don't get to commit that crime, which is why our violent crime rate continues to go down and down and down despite there being tens of millions more guns in the US than there were before. Facts are certainly inconvenient for your ideological ass-hat arguments, aren't they?

They already know Seth has a gun, they will not approach you.

Correct. They do know because I present a confident and aware image in public and as all predators are, they are keenly aware of the signals that they are about to get hurt or killed by their potential victim, and they go elsewhere. Mountain lions do the same thing.

So, if everyone else has a gun they are going to be out of business quite soon, aren't they? That's what our 25 year CCW experiment proves beyond any doubt. Criminals are afraid of armed citizens.

The only people who argue against an armed citizenry are either criminals or supporters of criminals or complete idiots who should be ignored on principle because there is no rational, logical reason to make such an argument if you're not in one of those categories.

[Seth]

Yeah, people get their heads sawn off all the time here. Honestly Seth, you come across like a loony.

Um, no, but people are criminally assaulted in the US and use their legal firearms to defend against such attacks between 80,000 and 2.5 million times a year, depending on who you believe, whereas nobody in the UK can defend themselves with effective weapons of self defense against even the simplest assault,

You really should stop making comments about the UK because you show yourself over and over again to not have the faintest fucking idea what you're talking about. I can defend myself against attack using anything I can get hold of, but unlike the US - pay attention Einstein, because this is important - even the fucking criminals here are highly unlikely to be packing heat, and so I don't need a gun for defending myself against criminals.

Yes you do, you are just too indoctrinated in sheepledom to know it.

You delude yourself if you think that having a gun on you will always stop you from being attacked.

You're the one who is delusional because I never said or implied any such thing. Nothing "always" does anything. It's about maximizing the individual's chances of survival in the event of a deadly encounter. The fact is that sometimes you die. But whereas you will die on your knees, pissing your pants and screaming for help as some terrorist saws your head off, if I die, it will be with as many dead attackers as I can manage to produce in the time allotted given the amount of ammunition I have available, and I will die with wounds in the front of my body and a smoking, empty gun in my hands, on top of a pile of my enemies.

much less two determined terrorists intent on sawing your head off.

I must be psychic because I'd already worked out you were going to try to use that unique event in any 'argument'. I will never in my entire life be deliberately knocked down by a car and then while unconscious be almost decapitated by two members of a terrorist organisation who had picked me out as a squaddie beforehand due to me having left a barracks earlier and being seen making my way back there wearing a Help for Heroes hoodie. This will never happen to me.

I'll bet that's just what he thought. He was wrong. So are you. It's because of your inability to reason by analogy I suspect.

Now over there, you might be reasonably justified in living your life like a commando hermit expecting head-removing jihadists to crash through your window at any moment, I don't know, but where I live we're really not.

I'll bet that's what he thought as they sawed his head off.

A woman got killed by a tiger here a few months back too, but similarly, I don't feel justified in carrying round equipment to prevent a tiger attack whenever I leave the house.

That's a risk assessment and response you are fully entitled to make for yourself, and only yourself. The point, which you seem unable to comprehend, is that neither you nor the government has any right, power or moral authority to make that decision for anyone else.

If I were to guess, I'd have to say that you definitely aren't justified and that you either live in some fantasy world of your own creation or pretend that you do in order to have something to shout about on the internet.

Here's the thing, I don't need "justification" to carry a firearm, I have a right to do so. That's the difference between being an enslaved sheeple and a free man. I don't have to ask anyone for permission to be armed.

I'm quite sure that neither that squaddie nor any of the sheeple standing around filming the event had the slightest notion that such a thing could happen to them, around them, or in their (unarmed) country.

Nobody expects such a rare event to happen to them except from perhaps you and a few nutters,

Actually, many people prepare for rare events even though they are rare. People buy guns, homeowners insurance, fire extinguishers, medical kits and all manner of preparatory items for unusual and rare events, and the interesting thing is that these people generally survive perilous situations precisely because they assess and plan for risks outside of the norm, whereas dipshits who wander around oblivious to what's going on around them usually die pretty quickly when things go south because they failed in the first principle of Darwinism: "Adapt or die."

and I must say Seth that you appear to put even more store in the utility of guns and knives than I thought if you truly think that Lee Rigby could have used his to prevent two men in a car from running him over from behind, rendering him unconscious. As I said, you come across like a loony.

Well, perhaps if he'd been carrying a gun, like I do, he would have been more situationally aware and would have noticed the car revving towards him and stepped out of the way and let them crash into the pole they crashed into without hitting him first. I'd like to think I would have done so. Now I don't know about you, but I don't walk obliviously along the street facing away from traffic trusting that every swinging dick or fuzzy cunt in a car is going to remain on the road at all times. I keep my head up and my ears open and I walk as defensively as I drive because I spent a good many years picking up pieces of people like you who have an inordinate amount of trust in the ability of random people to control themselves and their vehicles.

And had he stepped out of the way of the killers he would have then been well positioned to draw and engage targets when they exited the vehicle armed with meat cleavers, and there would be two dead terrorists and one live squaddie. It's actually a shame that the terrorists didn't go chop up a bunch more mutton-heads standing around filming. That would have been quite instructive to the world to see the cell phone video of a mesmerized sheeple standing there as they approach and bury a meat cleaver in their forehead. Professional journalists, particularly war photographers are well aware of this phenomenon wherein looking through the viewfinder intellectually detaches the photographer from the events going on around him and cause him to ignore obvious oncoming danger because through the viewfinder it doesn't seem real.

They were wrong.

Whereas you're not even wrong,

Nope.

first for using an exceedingly rare event which will never happen to the vast, vast majority of people

Again, try reasoning by analogy some time, it'll help your comprehension.

in order to try to show why knives and guns are a good idea, and second for either being unaware of, or deliberately glossing over, the facts of that incident in order to make it look like all the 'sheeple' (several of whom actually covered Rigby's body with their own and stood arguing with the two idiots waving their meat cleavers around about what they'd done - yeah, real servile, cowardly people) needed to do to prevent it was...I dunno...wave their knives at he car once they'd telepathically realised what was about to transpire? You show precious little sign of having thought this through, Seth. Are you suggesting that the 'sheeple' should have gone up to these cleaver-wielding fucksticks and produced their own knives? What can you possibly think the utility of that would have been? Just draw breath for a second and consider your words before regurgitating them in front of nice people.

Well, you're an idiot if you bring a pen-knife to a cleaver fight, which is why I carry a handgun, with which I'd have engaged them from beyond cleaver distance as soon as it was obvious they were intending deadly harm against someone. As for the dimwits who stood over the squaddie, do you really think it was courage or was it plain shock and stupidity? Only by the grace of Allah are those fuckwits still alive. They got extremely lucky that they came across a couple of half-assed jihadists more interested in publicity than body counts. Had they encountered a real jihadi, like the ones from ISIS, they would have gotten the chop pretty damned quickly. I think they simply did not process what had just happened and were operating in sheepleish "auto accident" mode, thinking that the killers were simply angry motorists who hit someone and then attacked him, rather than properly analyzing the situation as a deliberate homicidal terror attack. My guess is that everyone who was around was simply in a state of shock and could have been cut down one by one with complete impunity and no resistance whatsoever precisely because like you, they have not properly assessed risk and have failed to train for this sort of event. The first maxim of emergency response is "In an emergency, you will revert to your training." The second maxim is "If you fail to train, in an emergency you will do nothing." And that's exactly what they did. Nothing remotely effective related to the actual threat. They stood there unbelieving and in shock as murderous terrorists armed with weapons and covered in blood walked right the fuck up to them and started jabbering at them and waving their weapons around. And what did those sheeple do? Did they even run away? Nope, they stood there shooting cell phone video.

Idiots and sheeple both. Lucky ones, 'tis true, but sheeple nonetheless.

So are you.

Lol, no. You're just getting yourself worked up for yet another rant on the internet about a topic you've shown yourself to know fuck-all about.

My decades of experience as a police officer and combat training disagree with you.

On and on and on, Seth, for years, ranting on the internet about topics you could not have deliberately picked to better show your ignorance. Do you ever look back and think what you could have been doing with yourself in that time? I dunno, maybe we should all consider ourselves lucky that you've been inside fapping out your bullshit rather than on the streets with your boom sticks and scimitars.

I'll pit my defense-related CV against yours any day. Oh, and I have been on the streets with my "boom stick" every single day for more than 30 years now, so don't try to teach your grandpa to suck eggs, boy.

If YOU are the one getting your head sawn off,

I'm not though and never will be.

I'll bet that's what HE thought.

Your entire 'argument' rests on 'what ifs' that will never come to pass. I'm sure it's a fun exercise, but that's all it is.

Yet strangely, people keep getting their heads cut off by Islamic radicals all over the world. They also get shot, burned, blown up and otherwise shown how asinine your sort of ostrich-like dismissal of facts really is.

do you think you might be hoping that someone like me just happens to be around to put a stop to it,

Yeah, about that. What exactly do you think you'd be able to do in that situation, Seth?

Shoot them until they are unable to continue posing a deadly threat to anyone.

Bearing in mind that the people who actually saw the fucksticks drive into Rigby and then get out to him at first thought that they were helping a road traffic accident victim?

Poor tactical analysis is a hallmark of sheeple.

Because I'll tell you what you could have done that the 'sheeple' couldn't, shall I? Fuck all. You'd have been just the same as the rest of them, unaware of the true picture until his windpipe had been severed.

Maybe, maybe not. But I certainly wouldn't have stood around watching them saw at his neck, I'd have put them down right then and there.

You apparently see yourself as this valiant defender of freedom and justice, riding in to the aid of citizens in distress, piercing the bad guy through the heart with a single shot before twirling your pistol around on your index finger, holstering it and riding off into the sunset. In reality you'd be just as useless as anyone else, with the added possibility of you getting a bit too carried away with the adrenaline of the situation and your own bloated ego and harming someone else.

No, you're projecting your impotence onto me. You see, I've spent decades training for just this sort of thing and how to respond appropriately and lawfully. You, on the other hand, don't know shit from Shinola about defensive tactics.

do you think you might be hoping that someone like me just happens to be around to put a stop to it,

Apparently you're deluded. Or so I will think until you can show me otherwise by presenting a reasoned argument showing how Seth the Sharp Shooter would put a stop to either the Lee Rigby situation or the me-getting-my-head-sawn-off situation.

Nice evasion. You'd piss your pants, and shit yourself too.

or are you going to stand on your loony principles

Try and stay rational if you could, Seth. First you need to name these principles and then show RATIONALLY how they're loony. Only after that can we move on to what I might do in a cloud cuckoo land scenario in which I'm getting my head sawn off on the mean streets of Thatto Heath by Michael Adebowale and Michael Adebolajo.

If you don't care, I certainly don't, it's your head, but I don't agree to allow you, or anyone else, to make that decision for another.

and graciously accept having your head sawn off

When people pepper their posts with fallacies, this tells other people that they can't win an argument without them.

It's not a fallacy, it's a test, and you failed.

This in turn tells them that they don't have a very good argument. Or are you in fact so stupid as to believe that because I don't think I need to walk around armed at all times that I must therefore graciously accept having my head sawn off in some Hollywood blockbuster scenario you seem convinced is a reasonably possible eventuality? Try and calm down.

Problem is, it's not what you do that matters. Nobody gives a fuck if your head gets cut off. The problem occurs when you use your stupidity as an excuse to put others at risk by disarming them too.

because the principle of an unarmed citizenry is more important to you than your life?

Unfortunately you've eroded your credibility even further than it had previously been by relying on yet another fallacy. Nothing's more important to me than my own life, young Seth, apart from the lives of a very, very small number of loved ones, you've just made that up. And you really are completely off your rocker if you think that living in a society where people are not wandering around with guns and knives 24/7 means that we're all willingly acquiescing to decapitation.

It's not a matter of acquiescing, it's a matter of being able to prevent it. If you can Austin Powers your way out of it with a sexy pelvic thrust and a judo-chop, by all means do so. Me, I'll take the easy way and shoot them before they get close enough to hurt me.

The point of the question, which you've missed yet again, is that you get to make those sort of decisions for yourself, but not for anyone else. That's why I ask those specific questions. If Grandma doesn't have the Mojo and doesn't know Judo, then she might decide she needs a "Great Equalizer" to deal with suchlike circumstances, and you've got fuck-all justification for preventing or interfering with her doing so.

Now it's possible that you might actually be an ethical pacifist and would do so.

Nope. Luckily, I'm very sure that nothing of the kind will ever happen to me so it literally doesn't matter.

That's what every crime victim thinks. They are so, so very wrong. And so are you.

There are examples of people who do loony stuff like burning themselves to death in protest of war, but somehow I doubt this applies to your shallow ideology.

Fallacy again, Seth, you really need to watch that, or else people will think your argument is too flimsy to stand up by itself.

No, just a prediction that your bark is worse than your bite.

So let's turn the screw a bit

Try not to get carried away, young Seth. There are newts currently residing in garden ponds capable of turning the screw more effectively than you.

And yet you can't even face a newt twisting the screw and have to evade and squirm ineffectively as your stupidity is shoved up your ass.

and hypothesize that it's not you, but your fifteen year old daughter or son that is being hacked at, and perhaps raped as well. Or your wife. Or your best friend.

How far do your pacifist principles extend now? Will you stand by and loudly proclaim, "This rape and murder, as horrific as it is, must be endured for the sake of the nation in order to justify the government's decision to disarm all of us in order to make society safer!"

OK, this shows to me that either you've finally lost it, or you have no shame whatsoever and will use any and all fallacies in order to make it look like you have a shadow of a point to make. What you seem to have done here is got hold of a pretend person with a whole set of beliefs and are arguing with them about something you have imagined them to say. A crazy person, by the way, who would stand about calmly proclaiming things while a close relative was getting raped and murdered. Does such a person even exist? I suppose one might, but it sure as fuck ain't me. Straw men are fun to knock down, but when you do it as conspicuously as you do here, Seth, you shoot yourself in the foot rather because none but the most rabidly in love with your Yosemite Sam internet persona will bother to take you seriously. You lose any argument you take part in when you wheel out this crap.

Ooooh, declaring victory while ignoring the challenge! The hallmark of a troll without an argument. I knew you didn't have it in you.

You got the sand to live by your principles or are you just another gross hypocrite?

Oh Deidre love, calm down, make yourself a nice cup of tea and stroke a kitten for 20 minutes, then come back and re-read this silly nonsense. You're just making things up and attributing them to me. I'm not a pacifist, you've invented this position for me. You've wheeled out several fallacies and have lost by default. Sorry.

Yup, no rebuttal at all, just sputtering and hand-waving diversion. You lose.

My guess is that you will be screaming and praying for someone like me with a gun to come along and put a stop to it,

Yeah - this is Fantasy Seth talking again. Let's see you post rationally, logically, without straw man arguments or shoe horning in or glossing over anything, showing how you rocking up with a gun to the Lee Rigby incident would have changed the outcome for the better. Until you do, you're just forcing steam out your blow hole, a rather boring and jaded display at this stage, seeing as how pretty much everyone across at least 3 internet fora has been watching you doing that for literally years without rest.

Zip! Zang! And the evasion meter pegs out....

which coulda been you if you had the balls to stand up to your idiotic government and insist that they respect your rights.

Oops, showing yer ignorance and naivete again, young Seth. All this blather you give out about your rights, how the citizens of the UK are servile cowards who won't stand up to their government, how we're all under the thumb and you supposedly say it with a straight face, and yet there you are with your routinely armed police force who can shoot you stone cold dead at any time and you could do fuck-all about it, while the police here continue to reject carrying fire arms as a matter of course.

Which just demonstrates that Brits as a species are too stupid to live.

Oh I know, I know, you'd suss out any dangerous situation with your supernatural abilities and then be ready with your gun.

My gun is always ready. So is my rifle.

Do me a favour. If your government decided to squash you you'd be squashed, well and truly, without ceremony or preamble, boom sticks or no.

Perhaps. But there's 200 million of us and less than 2 million of them, so the odds are not as long as you seem to think they are.

You're gnats to them. If someone wanted you dead you'd be dead before you had a chance to get your responsibly stored gun,

You mean the one I carry on my hip and can draw and fire and put two in the assailant's chest and one in his head in 0.76 seconds? That one? Perhaps you mean the fully-loaded AR-15 semiautomatic rifle that resides in my bedroom in a locking device that takes three seconds to open, leaving me with a fully-functioning, fully-loaded, one-up-the-spout rifle that needs but a fraction of a second to move the selector from "Safe" to "Fire." Or maybe you mean the Fabarms/H&K 12 gauge pump-action shotgun loaded with eight rounds of #4 buckshot that sits in the locking device beside the AR?

Yes, it's very possible that I could get killed before I have a chance to respond in self-defense, but that will simply reflect poor strategic and tactical planning on my part, and so I will deserve what happens. But the important thing is that I'm prepared to take action when and if it's required, no matter what the threat, from an earthquake to a snowstorm to a wildfire to a home invasion by thugs dressed as SWAT police who aren't actually police with a valid warrant.

You, on the other hand, will sit there wringing your hands and pissing and shitting yourself as they march you to the showers.

and there are certainly several million people who could get that done for you extremely easily, given the ubiquity of guns. That's why you think you need them in the first place - every bastard has arms or can get them, so you fear your government, you fear the police, you fear the guy walking down the street behind or towards you, you fear every bump in the night because a gun could be lurking around every corner.

That's where you're wrong. I live free of fear because I am well trained and well armed.

You dress this up and turn it around and try to say you're exercising your rights, but you're trapped, young Seth, by the very things which you think make you free. You can't or won't see it because you're in it. Those of us who aren't in it aren't fooled. You carry on fearing everyone, Seth, carry on fearing every bizarre, freak scenario.

So you DON'T have a fire extinguisher in your home....hmmmm. Sounds pretty stupid to me.

I can live without that kind of 'freedom'.

Until you can't. Just ask the Jews about how that worked out for them in the past.

I fucking guarantee it in fact.

Watch out everyone, Seth guaranteed something on the internet. In fact he fucking guaranteed it. Oh well that's it then, end of argument. Come back when you've calmed down, and when you have a calm, reasonable argument to present instead of the spittle flecked rantings you have thus far presented. In the meantime, I do hope that you heed the very real threat of a 747 crashing down on you while you sleep and have set up home somewhere that planes never fly over and never venture anywhere under a flight path. If not, just what the fuck do you think you would do if you found yourself smeared over a wide area, stand about loudly proclaiming how this is a breach of your rights?

Hey, sometimes you die. That's just how it is. I plan not to die from preventable causes that can be addressed through good strategic and tactical planning, excellent and wide-ranging defensive and survival training, and the proper equipment to make those plans and training as effective as possible in any emergency situation.

It's called "maximizing my chances of survival."

You, on the other hand, will die from the simplest, stupidest thing, like a festering wound, because you have neither planned nor trained nor equipped yourself to survive.

No great loss there though, so carry on wandering about with your head firmly up your ass, by all means.

[Seth]

Seriously? Oh well, scratch that then. I was assuming Seth was a normal person. My mistake.

No more or less so than you.

[Fallible]

You're wasting your time. You're incapable of arguing without the liberal use of fallacies, which means you lose by default. Come back when you grow the fuck up.

[Seth]

Watch out everyone, Seth guaranteed something on the internet. In fact he fucking guaranteed it. Oh well that's it then, end of argument. Come back when you've calmed down, and when you have a calm, reasonable argument to present instead of the spittle flecked rantings you have thus far presented. In the meantime, I do hope that you heed the very real threat of a 747 crashing down on you while you sleep and have set up home somewhere that planes never fly over and never venture anywhere under a flight path. If not, just what the fuck do you think you would do if you found yourself smeared over a wide area, stand about loudly proclaiming how this is a breach of your rights?

You are talking about someone who keeps a chemical warfare suit in case a train nearby with chemicals on crashes

You mean like the one that rolled through town last year less than 500 feet from my house spewing acid out of a leaking tank car? Bet your ass I do. That's twice I've been put at immediate risk by a train. The first time was in Florida when I was in college, when a train derailed and ruptured six tank cars full of chlorine gas on a rail line a couple of hundred yards north of the Interstate highway that I'd driven on not ten minutes before that killed 13 people when the gas cloud rolled down over the interstate in the dark and people drove into it thinking it was just fog?

You damned betcha I have CBRN equipment. Might need it even more, what with ebola spreading as it is.

or Al Queda launched a nerve gas attack.

You mean like the Sarin attack in Japan a few years ago by some other religious nut, or the gas attacks by Saddam on the Kurds in the 80s?

We aren't talking about 'normal' (as in typical of the general population and in no way a personal attack implying a psychopath because that would be against the rules)

Who the fuck wants to be "normal" anyway. I prefer excellence myself.

[Seth]

You're wasting your time. You're incapable of arguing without the liberal use of fallacies, which means you lose by default. Come back when you grow the fuck up.

Coward.

[MrJonno]

Now I don't know about you, but I don't walk obliviously along the street facing away from traffic trusting that every swinging dick or fuzzy cunt in a car is going to remain on the road at all times

Someone who is that paranoid is either

1) lying
2) would never actually go on pavement/sidewalk


Let's face it Seth do you actually ever walk upright when you are outside as you are making yourself a bigger target for snipers, probably best to just crawl along the pavement making the best use of cover