Cliven Bundy

[Tero]

Well, domestic cattle are simply unable to migrate when the area they are in becomes overgrazed, unless led, there's often those pesky barbed wires or other things impeding their way.

Being from France, you don't understand the concept of "open range" here in the US. In Nevada the fences are miles, or dozens of miles apart, if they exist at all. There is no fence surrounding his allotment, which is huge (for a reason), but there are "drift fences" used to guide cattle into and out of different (huge) areas. The cattle are regularly rotated and moved around specifically to avoid overgrazing. That's what cowboys do...they go ride the range and herd the cattle around and keep them in roughly the same place as well as checking them for health, etc.. The cows aren't confined in a small area at all, and in Nevada every cow might be allotted 100 to 1000 or more acres per animal unit as the appropriate carrying capacity of the land. His allotment supported more than a thousand cows for more than 130 years until it was cut to 150 cows by the BLM for the supposed benefit of the tortoise, but in actuality to drive him out of business like the BLM has driven every other rancher in Clark County, Nevada out of business by doing the same thing.

That's wrong, and his established allotment right was unlawfully reduced, which is a "taking" under the Constitution.

And th Gubment can't do that? It's Gubment land. I f the Gubment needs to raise turtles, fine, Bundy can sell up and buy or rent more land in Nevada or other states. Why sould a grazing plan need to go on forever? There is no forever contract. This is what when you rent. And when you rent and don't pay rent...

“While Cliven Bundy is an extreme example, WWP knows that this sense of entitlement and disregard for federal authority is not uncommon in public lands ranching,” WWP said in a statement. “Bundy’s cows are not the only livestock trampling fragile deserts, precious riparian areas, and imperiling native plants and animals. That is why WWP will continue working to end abusive public lands livestock grazing and to press for meaningful policy reform.”

“We’ve been working for the Mojave desert tortoise since 1997. Challenging the Bureau of Land Management’s grazing practices on arid public lands, we’ve helped protect millions of acres of fragile tortoise habitat,” CBD says on its website.

“It’s so blatant,” says Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity said of Bundy’s trespass cattle in 2009. “Anyone can go out there anytime of the year and see cattle. BLM employees trying to protect sensitive plants and animals are very frustrated. It’s a problem that’s been going on and on.”

In April 2012, the BLM were preparing to remove Bundy’s cattle from federal lands, but mysteriously abandoned the operation — note that this was an election year. CBD filed an intent to sue against the BLM under the Endangered Species Act for failing to remove the Bundy’s trespass cattle that year.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/envir ... z30VMFsnBC

I'm a taxpayer. I vote for tortoise.

[Seth]

1. The Bundys never had property rights to the land in question. The taxpayer owns it, and never gave or sold it to anyone.*

Go read the Taylor Grazing Act and shut the fuck up.

It'll have to wait until I get off your mom, Shithawk.

Fucking corpses is your thing? Ewwwww.

[Seth]

And th Gubment can't do that? It's Gubment land. I f the Gubment needs to raise turtles, fine, Bundy can sell up and buy or rent more land in Nevada or other states. Why sould a grazing plan need to go on forever? There is no forever contract. This is what when you rent. And when you rent and don't pay rent...

He paid his lease fees up until 98, when the BLM tried to squeeze him out using the tortoise as an excuse. Then he tried to pay them to the county. The property right in his allotment was established long before that. And no, the gubmint cannot just extinguish those established property rights without paying him "just compensation" under the 5th Amendment. In this case it's called a "regulatory taking" where the government imposes so many regulations as to make the reasonable use and enjoyment of his right to run cattle and appropriate water impossible, which is a defacto taking.

[piscator]

Well, domestic cattle are simply unable to migrate when the area they are in becomes overgrazed, unless led, there's often those pesky barbed wires or other things impeding their way.

Being from France, you don't understand the concept of "open range" here in the US. In Nevada the fences are miles, or dozens of miles apart, if they exist at all. There is no fence surrounding his allotment, which is huge (for a reason), but there are "drift fences" used to guide cattle into and out of different (huge) areas. The cattle are regularly rotated and moved around specifically to avoid overgrazing. That's what cowboys do...they go ride the range and herd the cattle around and keep them in roughly the same place as well as checking them for health, etc.. The cows aren't confined in a small area at all, and in Nevada every cow might be allotted 100 to 1000 or more acres per animal unit as the appropriate carrying capacity of the land. His allotment supported more than a thousand cows for more than 130 years until it was cut to 150 cows by the BLM for the supposed benefit of the tortoise, but in actuality to drive him out of business like the BLM has driven every other rancher in Clark County, Nevada out of business by doing the same thing.

That's wrong, and his established allotment right was unlawfully reduced, which is a "taking" under the Constitution.

And th Gubment can't do that? It's Gubment land. I f the Gubment needs to raise turtles, fine, Bundy can sell up and buy or rent more land in Nevada or other states. Why sould a grazing plan need to go on forever? There is no forever contract. This is what when you rent. And when you rent and don't pay rent...

Bundy could have opted for grazing leases elsewhere, to offset his loss of convenient desert where it takes over a section to graze 1 fucking cow, but he didn't. The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

He also could have read the writing (and writs) on the wall and spent the last few decades learning a new line of work like he'd expect out of a displaced Detroit machinist or 2nd-gen welfare recipient in North Las Vegas, but he chose not to.

“While Cliven Bundy is an extreme example, WWP knows that this sense of entitlement and disregard for federal authority is not uncommon in public lands ranching,” WWP said in a statement. “Bundy’s cows are not the only livestock trampling fragile deserts, precious riparian areas, and imperiling native plants and animals. That is why WWP will continue working to end abusive public lands livestock grazing and to press for meaningful policy reform.”

“We’ve been working for the Mojave desert tortoise since 1997. Challenging the Bureau of Land Management’s grazing practices on arid public lands, we’ve helped protect millions of acres of fragile tortoise habitat,” CBD says on its website.

“It’s so blatant,” says Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity said of Bundy’s trespass cattle in 2009. “Anyone can go out there anytime of the year and see cattle. BLM employees trying to protect sensitive plants and animals are very frustrated. It’s a problem that’s been going on and on.”

In April 2012, the BLM were preparing to remove Bundy’s cattle from federal lands, but mysteriously abandoned the operation — note that this was an election year. CBD filed an intent to sue against the BLM under the Endangered Species Act for failing to remove the Bundy’s trespass cattle that year.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/04/21/envir ... z30VMFsnBC

I'm a taxpayer. I vote for tortoise.

And on this land, you have an allocation priority, by Federal law. Shame some people want to trample over your rights, no? The State of Nevada would be well within her rights to declare an unrestricted hunt for feral cattle on the area in question.

[Seth]

Bundy could have opted for grazing leases elsewhere, to offset his loss of convenient desert where it takes over a section to graze 1 fucking cow, but he didn't.

How? By trucking his cows to Wyoming? The whole point of the Grazing Act was to ensure that established ranchers have a perpetual property right in their grazing allotments that's created by their actually using the land around their private property for grazing. The BLM can put its fucking turtles somewhere else...including the thousand or so that they are euthanizing right this very moment...

The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally in reducing his allotments.

He also could have read the writing (and writs) on the wall and spent the last few decades learning a new line of work like he'd expect out of a displaced Detroit machinist or 2nd-gen welfare recipient in North Las Vegas, but he chose not to.

Why should he? He has rights that the BLM grossly and deliberately violated with the specific malicious intent of driving him out of the cattle business.

“We’ve been working for the Mojave desert tortoise since 1997. Challenging the Bureau of Land Management’s grazing practices on arid public lands, we’ve helped protect millions of acres of fragile tortoise habitat,” CBD says on its website.

“It’s so blatant,” says Rob Mrowka, senior scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity said of Bundy’s trespass cattle in 2009. “Anyone can go out there anytime of the year and see cattle. BLM employees trying to protect sensitive plants and animals are very frustrated. It’s a problem that’s been going on and on.”

Fuck the CBD sideways with a cactus. That bunch of asswipes do nothing but file bogus lawsuits in their attempt to drive ALL public use out of public lands because they are ecozealots. The same motherfuckers got countless miles of 4wd trails around Moab made off-limits, roads that were built in the 1950s for uranium exploration and therefore are RS2477 rights-of-way that only Congress can vacate, to "protect" the "crust" that forms on the barren soil, which they claim is critical to survival of the desert.

They waste billions of dollars of our money and tie up every sort of use of federal lands authorized by law under the Multiple Use Doctrine by suing the Department of Agriculture over every little thing they can think of. They are one of the reasons that we have catastrophic wildfires, because they object to virtually every logging lease that is offered, and their "spotted owl" bullshit destroyed an entire industry and hundreds of thousands of people's lives and incomes in the Pacific Northwest with their horseshit claims that have proven not to be true in the ensuing decades.

I'm a taxpayer. I vote for tortoise.

You don't get a vote on Bundy's property rights, that's the whole point.

And on this land, you have an allocation priority, by Federal law. Shame some people want to trample over your rights, no? The State of Nevada would be well within her rights to declare an unrestricted hunt for feral cattle on the area in question.

[/quote]

But the state of Nevada won't, because the state of Nevada by and large agrees with Bundy that the feds need to butt the fuck out of what is by right Nevada's land, not the US government's.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally in reducing his allotments.

So, you clearly think you are the final legal arbiter in the US...

Such puffed-up arrogant codswallop...

[pErvinalia]

The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally...

So are we fucking justice, or are we invoking it??

[piscator]

The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally...

So are we fucking justice, or are we invoking it??

It appears some don't get the distinct difference between a "Graze Allotment", and a parcel of land...

Good thing the courts do though, huh?

[JimC]

Make mine a Bundy and Coke...

[Tyrannical]

He's the last cattle rancher in the area, so there are less cattle there now than anytime in the last 150 years. I'm sure those tortoise are fine. Probably used to be way more Buffalo around before that anyways.

[piscator]

He's the last cattle rancher in the area, so there are less cattle there now than anytime in the last 150 years. I'm sure those tortoise are fine. Probably used to be way more Buffalo around before that anyways.

Us American hunters can schwack those cows and cart them away to feed our children. No cows, no problem. Bundy can go punch a clock at WalMart.

[Seth]

Seth wrote:

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally in reducing his allotments.

So, you clearly think you are the final legal arbiter in the US...

Such puffed-up arrogant codswallop...

Meh. Lower courts fuck up all the time. That's why we have a Supreme Court, which is the final legal arbiter.

[Seth]

The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally...

So are we fucking justice, or are we invoking it??

Invoking it. This is ripe for the Supreme Court.

[JimC]

Seth wrote:

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally in reducing his allotments.

So, you clearly think you are the final legal arbiter in the US...

Such puffed-up arrogant codswallop...

Meh. Lower courts fuck up all the time. That's why we have a Supreme Court, which is the final legal arbiter.

Well, then simply say that in your "eminent legal opinion" he should appeal.

Until he does that, and wins, he is in breech of the law, and law enforcement is entitled to act to remove his cattle.

[pErvinalia]

The courts have ruled he vacated his claims when he failed to act on them over decades of formal notification from the owners representatives, the BLM and the courts.

Fuck the court. The BLM acted illegally...

So are we fucking justice, or are we invoking it??

Invoking it. This is ripe for the Supreme Court.

Well get on with it then. How long does the hick want?