Vote on Palestinian Statehood Looms

[pErvinalia]

Fair enough. If I had my 'druthers, we'dve hit back harder.

And, if your boys pull another job, I'm thinking we will...

Exactly.

"America... FUCK YEAH!"

Same old same old for CES. Standard "America kicks ass...well...ahhhhh... but but but...CUBA!!!!"

followed, of course, by zilla with the only note he knows how to play.

I didn't say America kicks ass, nor did I mention Cuba.

I said that I wished we'd hit back harder after 9/11, and if it happens again, I think we will. Do you doubt that? Do you think that if there was another event on the scale of 9/11/01 that the US WOULDN'T respond with at least as much force as it did after 9/11 if not more?

Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

[Coito ergo sum]

Fair enough. If I had my 'druthers, we'dve hit back harder.

And, if your boys pull another job, I'm thinking we will...

Exactly.

"America... FUCK YEAH!"

Turn the other cheek policy for you then?

Nup. I'm all about outcomes that work. By all means bomb the living fuck out of every country that mosquito-bites you.

Nothing like changing the facts.

9/11/01 was a mosquito bite?

Dominate the world through fear under the threat of massive punishment, and you'll be no better than the Nazi's. [awaits a call of "Godwin", as if that is an answer to my point].

Utter and complete nonsense. It insults everything from history to intellectual honesty, and belittles the memory of those actually murdered and oppressed by Nazi Germany. The idea that responding vigorously to an attack being "no better than the Nazis" is awe-inspiring in its casuistry.

How well did that work out for them?

Yes, let me recall the way the Nazis were attacked and the invasion of Poland and France, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, the Soviet Union, the annexation of Czechosolovakia, the invasion of the Balkan countries and the Iberian peninsula and North Africa, and the sinking of American shipping in the Atlantic, and the espionage activities against the U.S.....all were retaliations for an attack against Nazi Germany...

It might last for a while, but you can't beat proud people down. They WILL fight back (exactly what the Palestinians do). Neo-cons, and the likes of you, will be the downfall of your country. Why do you think it is already well on the way down the shitter? Exporting fear and punishment DOES NOT WORK. It just wastes money. Money you guys don't have to be wasting.

Beat proud people down? What the fuck are you on about? Since when does "respond to being attacked" mean we're beating proud people down?

And, now you bring the Palestinians into it? The US hasn't attacked any Palestinians or beaten them down.

The likes of me? You mean someone who thinks clearly, as opposed the muddled claptrap, hyperbole and non sequiturs that spew forth from your gaping maw?

[Coito ergo sum]

[
Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

What do you recommend, exactly?

[pErvinalia]

Exactly.

"America... FUCK YEAH!"

Turn the other cheek policy for you then?

Nup. I'm all about outcomes that work. By all means bomb the living fuck out of every country that mosquito-bites you.

Nothing like changing the facts.

9/11/01 was a mosquito bite?

In the scale of other events around the world, it really is, Coito. Surely you can see this? Your people are living in total fear of a pretty small threat. Just the kind of position right wing governments like to have their citizens in (and yes, the Democrats are right wing by world standards).

Dominate the world through fear under the threat of massive punishment, and you'll be no better than the Nazi's. [awaits a call of "Godwin", as if that is an answer to my point].

Utter and complete nonsense. It insults everything from history to intellectual honesty, and belittles the memory of those actually murdered and oppressed by Nazi Germany. The idea that responding vigorously to an attack being "no better than the Nazis" is awe-inspiring in its casuistry.

Weren't you just applauding earlier in the thread (or perhaps it was a derail of another one) the firebombing of Tokyo (and possible the two nukes as well)? This subsequent statement of bluster and invective just adds to the perception well fashioned by neo-cons and tea baggers that Team America wants to police the whole fucking world, and anyone who dares to step out of line will feel the full force of good 'ol American revenge justice.

How well did that work out for them?

Yes, let me recall the way the Nazis were attacked and the invasion of Poland and France, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, the Soviet Union, the annexation of Czechosolovakia, the invasion of the Balkan countries and the Iberian peninsula and North Africa, and the sinking of American shipping in the Atlantic, and the espionage activities against the U.S.....all were retaliations for an attack against Nazi Germany...

Imperialism is imperialism, Coito, regardless of what guise it comes under.

It might last for a while, but you can't beat proud people down. They WILL fight back (exactly what the Palestinians do). Neo-cons, and the likes of you, will be the downfall of your country. Why do you think it is already well on the way down the shitter? Exporting fear and punishment DOES NOT WORK. It just wastes money. Money you guys don't have to be wasting.

Beat proud people down? What the fuck are you on about? Since when does "respond to being attacked" mean we're beating proud people down?

Iraq, anyone?

Half of latin America, anyone?

And, now you bring the Palestinians into it?

Umm, that's what this thread is about. Have you forgotten?

[pErvinalia]

[
Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

What do you recommend, exactly?

Get your fucking noses out of other peoples affairs. Start doing it now. Don't wait till you're attacked again. You're spread all over the Arab world bullying the locals into doing business with America. Try some honest interaction with the rest of the world, and then perhaps the rest of the world wouldn't despise your government and toxic way of life so much.

[Coito ergo sum]

Exactly.

"America... FUCK YEAH!"

Turn the other cheek policy for you then?

Nup. I'm all about outcomes that work. By all means bomb the living fuck out of every country that mosquito-bites you.

Nothing like changing the facts.

9/11/01 was a mosquito bite?

In the scale of other events around the world, it really is, Coito. Surely you can see this? Your people are living in total fear of a pretty small threat. Just the kind of position right wing governments like to have their citizens in (and yes, the Democrats are right wing by world standards).

More red herrings and straw men.

One - we do not live in "total fear." Responding to an attack is not "living in total fear."

Two - feel free to list the attacks on other countries that you're talking about. I'm happy to address them.

Dominate the world through fear under the threat of massive punishment, and you'll be no better than the Nazi's. [awaits a call of "Godwin", as if that is an answer to my point].

Utter and complete nonsense. It insults everything from history to intellectual honesty, and belittles the memory of those actually murdered and oppressed by Nazi Germany. The idea that responding vigorously to an attack being "no better than the Nazis" is awe-inspiring in its casuistry.

Weren't you just applauding earlier in the thread (or perhaps it was a derail of another one) the firebombing of Tokyo (and possible the two nukes as well)?

Applauding it, no. Understanding it in context, absolutely. Simplistic Knee-jerking from an easy chair with talk of "war crime" - absolutely not.

This subsequent statement of bluster and invective

Stating that I wish we responded more vigorously to 9/11 and that I think that if a similar attack occurred again that the US would in fact respond stronger...that's now "bluster" and "invective?"

just adds to the perception well fashioned by neo-cons and tea baggers that Team America wants to police the whole fucking world, and anyone who dares to step out of line will feel the full force of good 'ol American revenge justice.

Stop taking your ideas of the United States from movies made by the makers of South Park.

More casuistry on your part. "Anyone who dares step out of line?" Are you joking? Did I say - "I think we should retaliate against countries that step out of line?" No, of course not. I was talking about the US actually being attacked to a degree at least as serious as 9/11/01. To you, somehow, that means that I think that anytime someone steps out of line, they ought be bombed.

How well did that work out for them?

Yes, let me recall the way the Nazis were attacked and the invasion of Poland and France, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, the Soviet Union, the annexation of Czechosolovakia, the invasion of the Balkan countries and the Iberian peninsula and North Africa, and the sinking of American shipping in the Atlantic, and the espionage activities against the U.S.....all were retaliations for an attack against Nazi Germany...

Imperialism is imperialism, Coito, regardless of what guise it comes under.

Responding to being attacked, rEvolutionist, is not imperialism, regardless of how it's mischaracterized.

It might last for a while, but you can't beat proud people down. They WILL fight back (exactly what the Palestinians do). Neo-cons, and the likes of you, will be the downfall of your country. Why do you think it is already well on the way down the shitter? Exporting fear and punishment DOES NOT WORK. It just wastes money. Money you guys don't have to be wasting.

Beat proud people down? What the fuck are you on about? Since when does "respond to being attacked" mean we're beating proud people down?

Iraq, anyone?

Are you unable to actually read and understand what someone else writes? What you were bitching about was my comment that I wish we responded stronger after 9/11 and I think we would respond stronger if another 9/11 type attack happened again. What does that have to do with Iraq?

Libya anyone? Why pick Iraq out of the air?

Half of latin America, anyone?

Again - what? How is that any sort of opposition to what I said?

And, now you bring the Palestinians into it?

Umm, that's what this thread is about. Have you forgotten?

In this particular exchange, my friend, you were taking issue with my statement about, if I had my 'druthers, we would have responded more strongly. And, that if a similar attack occurred again, I thought we would. Is that something you're really arguing?

[Coito ergo sum]

[
Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

What do you recommend, exactly?

Get your fucking noses out of other peoples affairs. Start doing it now. Don't wait till you're attacked again. You're spread all over the Arab world bullying the locals into doing business with America. Try some honest interaction with the rest of the world, and then perhaps the rest of the world wouldn't despise your government and toxic way of life so much.

Laughable, puerile, ignorant, nonsense.

[pErvinalia]

Turn the other cheek policy for you then?

Nup. I'm all about outcomes that work. By all means bomb the living fuck out of every country that mosquito-bites you.

Nothing like changing the facts.

9/11/01 was a mosquito bite?

In the scale of other events around the world, it really is, Coito. Surely you can see this? Your people are living in total fear of a pretty small threat. Just the kind of position right wing governments like to have their citizens in (and yes, the Democrats are right wing by world standards).

More red herrings and straw men.

One - we do not live in "total fear." Responding to an attack is not "living in total fear."

I didn't say responding to an attack is living in total fear.

Two - feel free to list the attacks on other countries that you're talking about. I'm happy to address them.

Are you for real? Russia, UK (under IRA), Spain (under ETA), India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Egypt, , Iraq (citizens killed due to the Coalition invasion), Nicuaragua, Israel, Palestine (Israeli state terrorism), Cechnya (Russian state terrorism), Rwanda (terrorising themselves)... the list goes on. The US has had how many foreign terrorist attacks in the last million years? I'm sure you're going to bring up the number killed on 911. Obviously that was a big surprise for the attackers, as it was probably not expected that the buildings would have collapsed. If they didn't, the number would have been far smaller. Even still, the total numbers in the US is pretty small compared to the numbers killed by the terror the US and Israel have exported around the world.

Dominate the world through fear under the threat of massive punishment, and you'll be no better than the Nazi's. [awaits a call of "Godwin", as if that is an answer to my point].

Utter and complete nonsense. It insults everything from history to intellectual honesty, and belittles the memory of those actually murdered and oppressed by Nazi Germany. The idea that responding vigorously to an attack being "no better than the Nazis" is awe-inspiring in its casuistry.

Weren't you just applauding earlier in the thread (or perhaps it was a derail of another one) the firebombing of Tokyo (and possible the two nukes as well)?

Applauding it, no. Understanding it in context, absolutely. Simplistic Knee-jerking from an easy chair with talk of "war crime" - absolutely not.

Sure, I can accept that it was a product of it's time, but that's not the picture you portray of yourself on these forums. You sound like a neo-con imperialist.

This subsequent statement of bluster and invective

Stating that I wish we responded more vigorously to 9/11 and that I think that if a similar attack occurred again that the US would in fact respond stronger...that's now "bluster" and "invective?"

just adds to the perception well fashioned by neo-cons and tea baggers that Team America wants to police the whole fucking world, and anyone who dares to step out of line will feel the full force of good 'ol American revenge justice.

Stop taking your ideas of the United States from movies made by the makers of South Park.

No need to, I get plenty of it on these very forums (here and ratskep and others). It's all over fox news, your most popular tv network.

How well did that work out for them?

Yes, let me recall the way the Nazis were attacked and the invasion of Poland and France, Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, the Soviet Union, the annexation of Czechosolovakia, the invasion of the Balkan countries and the Iberian peninsula and North Africa, and the sinking of American shipping in the Atlantic, and the espionage activities against the U.S.....all were retaliations for an attack against Nazi Germany...

Imperialism is imperialism, Coito, regardless of what guise it comes under.

Responding to being attacked, rEvolutionist, is not imperialism, regardless of how it's mischaracterized.

Well, when you think invading a totally unrelated country that results in a couple of hundred thousand of it's citizens dying, and invading another one and fucking it up totally, and supporting a number of terrorist states (Israel and Saudi Arabia), isn't enough (wtf?!?), then I think you've totally lost your grip on reality. If it looks like imperialism, smells like imperialism, talks like imperialism, it probably is.

It might last for a while, but you can't beat proud people down. They WILL fight back (exactly what the Palestinians do). Neo-cons, and the likes of you, will be the downfall of your country. Why do you think it is already well on the way down the shitter? Exporting fear and punishment DOES NOT WORK. It just wastes money. Money you guys don't have to be wasting.

Beat proud people down? What the fuck are you on about? Since when does "respond to being attacked" mean we're beating proud people down?

Iraq, anyone?

Are you unable to actually read and understand what someone else writes? What you were bitching about was my comment that I wish we responded stronger after 9/11 and I think we would respond stronger if another 9/11 type attack happened again. What does that have to do with Iraq?

Oh sweet Jesus. You must live under a rock. Did Bush et al link Iraq to 9/11 or did they not? Hmm?

Libya anyone? Why pick Iraq out of the air?

Because 9/11 was used as a pretext to invade Iraq. What, I suppose you think this is some big left wing conspiracy? It's fucking common knowledge. TJHere's been whole books written on the subject, including by Richard Clark.

Half of latin America, anyone?

Again - what? How is that any sort of opposition to what I said?

Get with the program man. The reason WHY you are attacked is because you have beaten proud people down the world over for the last 60 odd years. Comprende?

And, now you bring the Palestinians into it?

Umm, that's what this thread is about. Have you forgotten?

In this particular exchange, my friend, you were taking issue with my statement about, if I had my 'druthers, we would have responded more strongly. And, that if a similar attack occurred again, I thought we would. Is that something you're really arguing?

I'm making the point that the treatment of Palestinians by the Israelis, with the good wishes of America, is yet another example of the sort of foreign misadventurism that has got America and Isreal in the shithole it is now in. People are lining up to attack you because you are such arseholes. Of course, i'm speaking of the actions of your government here.

[pErvinalia]

[
Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

What do you recommend, exactly?

Get your fucking noses out of other peoples affairs. Start doing it now. Don't wait till you're attacked again. You're spread all over the Arab world bullying the locals into doing business with America. Try some honest interaction with the rest of the world, and then perhaps the rest of the world wouldn't despise your government and toxic way of life so much.

Laughable, puerile, ignorant, nonsense.

Based on what? Why is it you think half the fucking world would love to see America go down in flames? Seriously, why?

[Coito ergo sum]

[
Unfortunately you are probably right. And what will it achieve? Will it achieve the cluster fuck that has become of Iraq and Afghanistan and your economy and your civil rights? Will it create even more tea bagging and christian fundamentalist loonies? YES to both.

What do you recommend, exactly?

Get your fucking noses out of other peoples affairs. Start doing it now. Don't wait till you're attacked again. You're spread all over the Arab world bullying the locals into doing business with America. Try some honest interaction with the rest of the world, and then perhaps the rest of the world wouldn't despise your government and toxic way of life so much.

Laughable, puerile, ignorant, nonsense.

Based on what? Why is it you think half the fucking world would love to see America go down in flames? Seriously, why?

I don't think half the world would love to see America go down in flames. Just because that's what YOU think doesn't mean "half the world" thinks it.

[Coito ergo sum]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIesXORj ... ture=feedu[/youtube]

[sandinista]

[

I don't think half the world would love to see America go down in flames. Just because that's what YOU think doesn't mean "half the world" thinks it.

More than half the world....and coito, this thread is just you I would answer some of your nonsense but rEvolutionist has been kind enough to save me the bother. wow.

[Coito ergo sum]

[

I don't think half the world would love to see America go down in flames. Just because that's what YOU think doesn't mean "half the world" thinks it.

More than half the world....and coito, this thread is just you I would answer some of your nonsense but rEvolutionist has been kind enough to save me the bother. wow.

Doubtful. Even if people oppose US policies, etc., that is a far cry from "wanting to see it go down in flames." The effect on the world of the US "going down in flames" would be incalculable. Only puerile fools and childish morons who don't think things through at all want to "see the US go down in flames."

Maybe your just suggesting that half the world expresses unfavorable views of the US. If so, then I'd agree with that. However, "going down in flames" is not the same as merely lacking favor - well, maybe it is to you, but to people who use the English language with the idea that words actually mean things, it's not the same thing at all.

[sandinista]

semantics. Given, so, change the terminology if you want. Answer rEvolutionists original question. "Based on what? Why is it you think half the fucking world (hates america) would love to see America go down in flames? Seriously, why?"

[Ian]

[

I don't think half the world would love to see America go down in flames. Just because that's what YOU think doesn't mean "half the world" thinks it.

More than half the world....and coito, this thread is just you I would answer some of your nonsense but rEvolutionist has been kind enough to save me the bother. wow.

That's so childish. It's your own wishful thinking. "See the US go down in flames", eh? Real grown up, dude.

Do you know how many international college students are in American unversities at this very minute? Seven hundred thousand. To say nothing of how many more apply for student visas and can't get in to American colleges for lack of room.

How many people have emigrated to the US just since 2000 (going back a century in the US is a whole other discussion)? Eleven million people. That's like the entire population of Ohio arriving within the last decade. And that's not counting another eleven million illegal immigrants. Put them together, and that's like every man, woman and child in Australia moving here just within the last decade.

How many people visit the US on vacation every year? About sixty million. Not bad considering almost thirty million of those are from outside Canda or Mexico and therefore have to fly across an ocean to do it.

How many non-Americans on this forum have either lived here or are living in the US right now? I can think of a good handful off the top of my head.

You may hate to admit it, or maybe you genuinely believe otherwise just because you want to, but the US remains the most powerful people-magnet in the world.

Typical rhetoric coming from guys like you - you think you can claim most of the people in the world share your level of hateful bigotry and we arrogant Americans are somehow just oblivious to it. Besides, "seeing America go down in flames" would cause such profound economic disruptions around the world that it's hard to even write into words. Even those people who don't happen to like American culture or foreign policies or whatever else know that the world needs American business.

You know what most people in the world were happy to see go down in flames? Communism.