Gabrielle Giffords Shot

[HomerJay]

See, that's your problem. Half of all American adults can't do simple arithmetic as shown by Army recruiters.

That's because they asked the wrong questions, they should have asked 'OK, you have a smith + wesson .357 with a 7 round cylinder, you fire one warning shot and then down three punks who voted for Obama, if you want to shoot each one in the groin for good measure do you need to re-load?'

[HomerJay]

Being an American is chosen, you can stop at any time.

"You can take the man out of America but you can't take America out of the man"

[Tigger]

Being an American is chosen, you can stop at any time.

"You can take the man out of America but you can't take America out of the man"

Actually, I was trying to keep Englishman in the woman, but that's another story.

[mistermack]

I know it must seem like "many around here", but in reality, there are only a few who overgeneralise, and let their dislike for American policies become dislike for Americans.

You speak for yourself. It's Australians who always over-generalise. We British NEVER over-generalise.
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[maiforpeace]

Ok, we get that you think George is a war criminal Gawd. Since George was a politician, that makes all politicians war criminals. Since Gabrielle is a politician... So, no sympathy. Got it.

She was not the only one shot in this massacre...people lost their lives, including a nine year old, ironically, born on 9/11...I really don't want to buy into the fear, but is it, or isn't it a coincidence that this woman was HATED by the Tea Party. Is this homegrown terrorism, incited by the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle and Glenn Beck?

I certainly hope not but if it is, it's scary stuff.

Correction, she is an American politician and in Congress. BTW, I'm surprised no one has mentioned that she is Jewish and accuse me of being an anti-Semite.

And there is nothing surprising about this shooting, Americans are well known for their terrorism a la WikiLeaks.

I didn't even know she was Jewish until you mentioned it Gawd.

There is a suggestion that the shooter may have some connection with the group American Renaissance though...

[Robert_S]

Simply put, I have a great deal of sympathy for the Palestinians, Iraqis, Afghans, and all those who's countries have come under the cross-hairs of the US military. I'm a great deal more anti-imperialist than I let on in here. But when I hear people using a tone and style of logic I find reminiscent of the Tea Party coming from the Left, whatever motivation I might have just to argue that side simply vanishes.

[Gawd]

I'm Right.

[Robert_S]

I'm Right.

You seem to care more about a self righteous superiority than about the problems that piss you off. Just like our Tea Party!

[JimC]

See, that's your problem. Half of all American adults can't do simple arithmetic as shown by Army recruiters.

That's because they asked the wrong questions, they should have asked 'OK, you have a smith + wesson .357 with a 7 round cylinder, you fire one warning shot and then down three punks who voted for Obama, if you want to shoot each one in the groin for good measure do you need to re-load?'

Being an American is chosen, you can stop at any time.

"You can take the man out of America but you can't take America out of the man"

Actually, I was trying to keep Englishman in the woman, but that's another story.

I know it must seem like "many around here", but in reality, there are only a few who overgeneralise, and let their dislike for American policies become dislike for Americans.

You speak for yourself. It's Australians who always over-generalise. We British NEVER over-generalise.
.

Each in their own way classic Ratzian responses to a sometimes irritating thread. I hope you all know how lucky we are in this forum...

AND THAT INCLUDES YOU, GAWD!

[Warren Dew]

What if she was trying to get the US to stop funding Israel, or to make any aid conditional upon fair treatment of the Palestinians?

HA!

I've just caught you making the kind of broad generalisation that takes a dubious moral high ground and leads to a sad dead end.

That particular generalization is pretty accurate, though. Democrats won't defund Israel because that would lose them the Jewish vote. Republicans won't defund Israel because that would lose them the pro-military vote.

[JimC]

What if she was trying to get the US to stop funding Israel, or to make any aid conditional upon fair treatment of the Palestinians?

HA!

I've just caught you making the kind of broad generalisation that takes a dubious moral high ground and leads to a sad dead end.

That particular generalization is pretty accurate, though. Democrats won't defund Israel because that would lose them the Jewish vote. Republicans won't defund Israel because that would lose them the pro-military vote.

The whole US political scene seems to be locked into fairly unconditional support for Israel, no matter how recalcitrant they are being over issues such as the settlements. I think this makes the Israel government dig in its heels and resist change, because they have a big brother who supports them, no matter whether they are being arseholes of not...

That is not to dismiss the very real effect of continuing rocket attacks by Hamas, and the other threats that Israel faces; every rocket attack helps the Israeli hawks dig in further...

It seems like a system locked in a stalemate forever, sometimes...

[Atheist-Lite]

It's been a contentious landbridge for several thousand years. Nothing will change. Peace will never last and war will in that region. It'll roll on long after we're dead and gone.

[Coito ergo sum]

born on 9/11...I really don't want to buy into the fear, but is it, or isn't it a coincidence that this woman was HATED by the Tea Party. Is this homegrown terrorism, incited by the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle and Glenn Beck?

I think it is very much of a coincidence:

1. She was a Blue Dog Democrat - very conservative, for a Democrat.
2. Quote from Caitie Parker on MSNBC, “As I knew him he was left wing, quite liberal. & oddly obsessed with the 2012 prophecy,” the former classmate, Caitie Parker, wrote in a series of Twitter feeds Saturday. (I saw the video of Ms. Parker saying exactly that.
3. He also didn't believe in god, I think, or was involved in some occult practices, apparently, because he was pissed off at the "In God We Trust" on the money and something about being handed a little Bible at a recruiting station. I was a bit worried that we'd get the "see - he's an atheist, and this is what we get when we take god out of public life..." mantra.
4. Is there any reason or evidence at this time to suggest that this guy aligned himself with Palin, Beck and the Tea Party? If there is, I haven't seen it. There is no more reason to think that, actually, than to think that this guy was incited by the likes of Kieth Obermann who used "cross hairs" on his "worst person in the world" segment on his show.
5. Here's an interesting article about how whacked out this guy was - his college sent a letter home to his parents saying that Loughner needed a psych eval to determine if he was a danger to other students: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... _yard.html

I think that this was a terrible multiple murder crime, committed by what appears to be (based on the writings that have been released) a paranoid-schizophrenic or at least a guy with a serious screw loose. Since it is very difficult to wrap our minds around how someone could commit such a crime, and how such madness can be stopped, it is very tempting to attribute a cause to it that is actually understandable and controllable. If we can conclude that somebody's "rhetoric" is a direct cause of the violence, then we can ease our minds by concluding that if we just "tone down" that rhetoric then this kind of thing won't happen.

The reality is, though, that there is zero evidence that ANYBODY'S improper rhetoric had anything to do with this. And, that's a fact. Always proving themselves to be, generally speaking, idiots and ventriloquist dummies, our "reporters" and "journalists" almost across the board failed to ask the pertinent questions: like - is there any evidence tying this guy Loughner to any "rhetoric" (whether left, right or indifferent), and if so, what exactly is that evidence?

Last point - within hours of the shooting - maybe within minutes of the shooting - we had causal attributions to Tea Partiers and Sarah Palin and others....some of the first comments I heard were to the effect of "see! this is what we get with 'this kind' of rhetoric." Yet, I can't seem to locate any specificity. the actual quotes they're talking about. What did these folks say - what are some examples - of what is considered an "incitement?" My guess is that a quote by Tea Partiers and Sarah Palin advocating violence is hard to come by. I doubt they did advocate violence or call for violence. The argument will be, IMHO, that it's their "overall tone" - and their "implicit message" - that arises out of their vociferous opposition to certain government policies or proposals that "creates an atmosphere" conducive to this kind of violence arising...

In any case, I was heartened by the medical press conference yesterday morning. I hope that Congresswoman Gifford fully recovers. This morning they said she's "holding her own," and the swelling is not getting any worse. "It's hard to say anyone is ever really completely okay after being shot in the head, but [Giffords] has a good chance of being able to walk away from this," said Arthur Kobrine, a professor of neurosurgery at Georgetown University Hospital. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02758.html

This was a horrible horrible deed, and my visceral reaction to Loughner, although I am against the death penalty, is that I would like to flip the switch myself. When I think of that 9 year old little girl he shot and killed, my visceral reaction changes to that of hoping he dies a horrible death, maybe slowly bludgeoned to death over a long period of time. My reason hopes he just gets stuck in a mental institution for the rest of his life, because it's obvious to me right now that he was completely frickin' nuts. But, the acts are so horrific that it's hard not to want to see the piece of shit dead.

[Trolldor]

I don't want him dead. It's real easy. The guy is nuts.

The problem is how easily was able to get a firearm.

[Coito ergo sum]

Ok, we get that you think George is a war criminal Gawd. Since George was a politician, that makes all politicians war criminals. Since Gabrielle is a politician... So, no sympathy. Got it.

She was not the only one shot in this massacre...people lost their lives, including a nine year old, ironically, born on 9/11...I really don't want to buy into the fear, but is it, or isn't it a coincidence that this woman was HATED by the Tea Party. Is this homegrown terrorism, incited by the likes of Sarah Palin, Sharon Angle and Glenn Beck?

I certainly hope not but if it is, it's scary stuff.

And there is nothing surprising about this shooting, Americans are well known for their terrorism a la WikiLeaks.

Crazy nutbags like Loughlin are part of the gene pool, unfortunately. Therefore, horrible events like this are, as you say, no surprise.

Your right -terrorism does occur in America. The Fort Hood massacre wherein the murderer shouted "Allah Akbar" while firing away is just one of them.