Vaccine Thread (Beyond Coronavirus thread)

[rainbow]

For instance, one group has been screeching 'end of days' over paper bags, or plastic bags, or any of a dozen other 'chicken little stories' for years.

The funnest part, is they change the flavour of 'end times' through several iterations, yet still expect to be believed.

I guess there ARE plenty of gullible sorts. Some even follow the child-preachers who fly to Davos, to tell everyone to stop using oil.

Noted. During The Great Reset, they will be hanging dissenters from the lampposts.

[Cunt]

Hermit, honestly, if you want to argue with someone, why not find someone who consents?

Isn't consent important to you? Or does that only apply to the ladies?

You keep making one unsubstantiated assertion after another, then say you do not consent to have them challenged. Most peculiar. Rationalia is a forum. From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of forum

1  a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business
    b : a public meeting place for open discussion The club provides a forum for people interested in local history.
    c : a medium (such as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas
2  a : judicial body or assembly : court
3  a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion The town has scheduled a public forum to discuss the proposal.
    b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities

Consent is important to me, but in this context it is not up to you to grant or withhold it. By posting in a forum the very definition of the word grants it automatically. All we need to be mindful of is to keep within some basic and uncontroversial rules, such as to refrain from trolling.

It isn't trolling, it's an unwillingness to argue with you here. It doesn't have a chance of changing your mind, as I noted in the quote I saved. It also won't likely change mine, for a similar reason.

It's almost like you should check someone elses unsubstantiated assertions...but then, all the righties have left. Hmmm...could it be they didn't want to 'discuss' things with you either?

Why do you think so many who disagree with you, find this forum unhospitable?

[Hermit]

Why do you think so many who disagree with you, find this forum unhospitable?

They hate having their uncoherence pointed out.

[Brian Peacock]

I like to be disagreed with - when it's in good faith. Most members here have changed my mind on something or other at some point - many more than once. But then again, most members aren't insecure about explaining their ideas and/or their reasons/reasoning.

[Hermit]

I like to be disagreed with - when it's in good faith. Most members here have changed my mind on something or other at some point - many more than once. But then again, most members aren't insecure about explaining their ideas and/or their reasons/reasoning.

One of my favourite quotes is an adaptation of what J.A. Wheeler once wrote: We must make our mistakes as fast as possible. He meant that's how theoretical physics progresses, but I think the principle applies generally. Starting with the premiss that most of what we know eventually turns out to be wrong, being made aware of one's mistakes is a good thing. It's how we progress. For this reason I delight in being convincingly proven wrong about this, that or the other.

Of course, as you hint at, unending streams of sarcasm, outright trolling, an unwillingness or inability to back opinions up with independent and verifiable facts, arguments by leading questions, evasions by moving goalposts and assorted trickery are not up to the job. Worse, to some extent our member from Yellowknife is infecting us with his bad-faith techniques. For instance, he has taught us to mimic his "I don't think x, but I understand why you would." I have also found myself trading snark for snark and paying sarcasm back with sarcasm. Lowering myself to his level of "discussion" is not something I am proud of.

[Brian Peacock]

A bad-faith response to that might be that you're merely 'virtue signalling' - which is itself a rhetorical affectation that does exactly what one is being accused of and criticised for. The sceptic asks for just cause, sound reasoning, and strong evidences. On the other hand, the cynic starts with the belief that all people are inherently selfish and motivated by malign and malicious impulses and then challenges others to prove them wrong to their satisfaction. To that I'd simply say: "Projecting much?"

[Cunt]

One of my favourite quotes is an adaptation of what J.A. Wheeler once wrote: We must make our mistakes as fast as possible. He meant that's how theoretical physics progresses, but I think the principle applies generally. Starting with the premiss that most of what we know eventually turns out to be wrong, being made aware of one's mistakes is a good thing. It's how we progress. For this reason I delight in being convincingly proven wrong about this, that or the other.

The quicker I found out how stupid I was about 'obesity apologetics', the quicker I stopped doing it.

I'm surprised at how firmly you avoid discussion on the subject of fatties choosing to be a burden, and choosing to be unhealthy (not a problem unless medicine is a 'pooled resource') and pretending that it isn't just overindulgence and laziness worn like a fine suit of undiscipline.

But yeah, it probably doesn't do as much damage as those who wear their mask under their nose in a store.

[pErvinalia]

I'm not obsessed with fat people, but I understand why you might be.

[Cunt]

Thanks, pErv. It's good to be understood.

My life was very clearly under threat. It bugs me that they aren't telling more people a

Everyone can easily agree it is an unnecessary strain on our strained systems, but somewhere along the way, it stops being the responsibility of the individual wearing the excess-adipose suit.

Who is at higher risk for severe illness from COVID-19?
• Older adults (increasing risk with each decade, especially over 60 years).
• People of any age with chronic medical conditions including:
• lung disease
• heart disease
• hypertension (high blood pressure)
• diabetes
• kidney disease
• liver disease
• dementia
• stroke
• People of any age who are immunocompromised, including those:
with an underlying medical condition (e.g., cancer)
taking medications that lower the immune system (e.g., chemotherapy)
• People living with obesity (BMI of 40 or higher).

So we can see pretty clearly (no source needed for something so common-sense, so I would have thought) that fatty is at increased risk of severe illness, and severe illness is more likely to bring fatty into contact with our health care workers.

And pizza delivery guy.

[pErvinalia]

I thought you were in favour of Freedum?

[Cunt]

I am. Freedom to choose fat was mine, and always is. It's one of the privileges of being one of the most wealthy humans in history.

Mask wearing and weight loss are both effective ways to protect the community from more covid-damage. I'm not sure masks are the bigger one in that example.

Suggesting of course that obesity is linked to poor cardio ability (it usually is) and that it means a giant pile of excess adipose tissue (it usually does) but even a super healthy obese guy would be at greater risk of anything attacking the breathing system. He's breathing more, for one simple thing.

This is what that obese athletic expert said about it. (non-scientific maybe, but YOU try to find another 'deadlifted half a fucking ton' expert)
https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/ed ... nces-72698

"I just want to win it once (World's Strongest Man) and then come back down to safe levels you know because, to put it blankly, if I stayed at 28 stone for 10 years I'd die."

[Cunt]

I should also say I overheard a conversation by a powerlifter, who was considering adding 10lbs, in order to qualify for a vaccine (his state prioritizes health conditions including obesity)

He decided not to do it (or was still wrestling with the ethical dilemma) but clearly mentioned that he wanted the vaccine, and could afford 10lbs (wouldn't negatively affect his powerlifting performance) but felt it would be cheating.

He is a man who selects his weight, damn near to the pound, to optimize for competition. He has no problem adding or removing a few pounds, to work his 'cut & bulk' rhythm, so can 'qualify by obesity' as easily as you or I would train up to a 5k walk. He also noted that, since he NEEDS addiction meetings for his health, being vaccinated gives him a lifeline he needs.

Should people maybe try to lose weight, to leave more vaccines for the more vulnerable? Or are they prioritizing offering it to obese people for non-covid related reasons?

[NineBerry]

Making lots of obese people stop being obese would certainly reduce a lot of severe Covid cases. It wouldn't stop the mayor problem, though. Even without the obese people, an unlimited spread of the virus would overload the healthcare system and cause a lot of deaths and long-lasting illness.

An approach that would be more successful at addressing the problem would be making stupid people more clever. Would really increase our chance in fighting the disease efficiently. And it shouldn't be harder than making lots of obese people stop being obese.

The body builder putting on weight wouldn't qualify for vaccination by the way. It's not enough having a relation of weight and body height to calculate a certain BMI. You need a medical certificate that attests obesity as a chronic disease.

[Tero]

Making lots of obese people stop being obese would certainly reduce a lot of severe Covid cases. It wouldn't stop the mayor problem, though. Even without the obese people, an unlimited spread of the virus would overload the healthcare system and cause a lot of deaths and long-lasting illness.

An approach that would be more successful at addressing the problem would be making stupid people more clever. Would really increase our chance in fighting the disease efficiently. And it shouldn't be harder than making lots of obese people stop being obese.

The body builder putting on weight wouldn't qualify for vaccination by the way. It's not enough having a relation of weight and body height to calculate a certain BMI. You need a medical certificate that attests obesity as a chronic disease.

But who will put in the one row of seats on the commuter planes, where we need the fat people sitting singly? The regular people sit two by two.

[Cunt]

Making lots of obese people stop being obese would certainly reduce a lot of severe Covid cases. It wouldn't stop the mayor problem, though. Even without the obese people, an unlimited spread of the virus would overload the healthcare system and cause a lot of deaths and long-lasting illness.

An approach that would be more successful at addressing the problem would be making stupid people more clever.

I think maybe the thing to do is grunt that they are stupid racists and complain later when their compliance with your suggestions doesn't improve.[/quote]
The body builder putting on weight wouldn't qualify for vaccination by the way. It's not enough having a relation of weight and body height to calculate a certain BMI. You need a medical certificate that attests obesity as a chronic disease.
[/quote]

The way it works here, is there is a process, bureaucratic in nature, which 'decides' if you qualify or not. Your GP agreeing that your weight puts you at risk is probably enough.

I've heard there are places where people can game the system by having automatic appointment-booking programs. Only a matter of time before someone is scalping tickets lol