Frau Merkel, we need more muslims !

[Feck]

i'm not scared i'm not an idiot . So Yes, just ignore the elephant in the thread the elephant in all gatherings of "A "theists . You can pretend I'm anything you fucking like but there are still fundamental problems with the evil cult known as islam .
and I'm ashamed of "A"theists that will not/cannot actually address this .
It's Like there is some check on your PC credentials: " Are you prepared to accept FGM, forced marriages,punitive rape , capital and corporal punishment often for unsubstantiated charges of blasphemy" ?
Well done, You have passed............ your agenda truly outshines your IQ !

[pErvinalia]

I agree Islam is fucking stupid. But that's a different claim to the shit that Collector and others make that Muslims are going to take over our western cultures. If you do the sums based on birth rates, even if they don't decrease (which birth rates always do in more equal and prosperous societies), then you see it's going to take hundreds of years if not more for muslims to outnumber non-muslims in most of our western countries. It's a scare campaign, plain and simple.

[pErvinalia]

And by the way, FGM is a central African problem, not a Muslim problem. In fact, it's predominantly practised by Christians.

[Svartalf]

And by the way, FGM is a central African problem, not a Muslim problem. In fact, it's predominantly practised by Christians.

Shows how much you know, it used to be practiced in the near/middle east too until recently, took Saddam to expunge it out of Iraq, and it still is a problem in the Arabic peninsula, especially Yemen.

[pErvinalia]

It's predominantly practised by Christians. None of what you said changes that.

[Feck]

wiki would disagree with you as would most of the muslims practicing it
The Shafi'i school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be wajib (obligatory).
The Hanbali school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be makrumah (honorable) and strongly encouraged, to obligatory.
The Maliki school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (optional) and preferred.
The Hanafi school of Islamic jurisprudence considers female circumcision to be sunnah (preferred).
you said " In fact, it's predominantly practised by Christians." I'm going to have to ask for evidence on that ?
again from wiki
Country based surveys on the rates of FGM suggest that 200 million women have undergone the procedures in 27 countries in Africa, as well as in Indonesia, Iraqi Kurdistan and Yemen, with a rate of 80–98 percent within the 15–49 age group in Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Guinea, Mali, Sierra Leone, Somalia and Sudan.[3] The practice is also found elsewhere in Asia, the Middle East and among communities from these areas in other countries.
Please tell me how many of those countries are predominantly christian and how many are predominantly Muslim ......?

[pErvinalia]

Ok, the following link shows that its a combination of both. But makes the point that it occurs predominantly in central Africa and pre-dates all the Abrahamic religions.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... ill-maher/

In any case, I don't know what it has to do with what Collector is arguing. FGM, forced marriages, punitive rapes, capital and corporal punishment for blasphemy are all illegal in the West. In your haste to rant about Islam you seem to have missed what the thread is about and what Nineberry was responding to.

[Feck]

FGM IS encouraged by islam that is the point surely ?
and that was not even original argument i'm more interested in why an atheist would be so keen to defend islam and why your first argument (even if a completely untrue one) was only a fallacy of relevance.
Just how far will you go to defend Islam ?
Islam is not going to take over western cultures but the stated aim of Islam is to try;
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... ms-2013-2/

[NineBerry]

I don't see myself as defending Islam but reality.

[JimC]

It's not a matter of defending Islam, which is definitely a more dangerous religion than most, it's a matter of being very careful of not getting into bed with racist red-necked right wing nut jobs, who conflate reasonable criticism of Islam with their own nasty prejudice...

And what they end up doing is not attacking Islam, or the worst of its practices, but attacking all muslims, most of whom in the west would inevitably move to a very moderate version of their religion unless forced into a ghetto mentality by racist attacks...

[Hermit]

Thousands of Muslim clerics issue fatwa against evil Islamic State and other terror groups

What Makes Oman Immune from Terrorist Groups like al-Qaeda and Islamic State?

[pErvinalia]

FGM IS encouraged by islam that is the point surely ?
and that was not even original argument i'm more interested in why an atheist would be so keen to defend islam and why your first argument (even if a completely untrue one) was only a fallacy of relevance.
Just how far will you go to defend Islam ?
Islam is not going to take over western cultures but the stated aim of Islam is to try;
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... ms-2013-2/

Stop ranting and raving and fucking think for a second. We are atheists here. No one likes Islam, let alone defends it. We defend rationality and evidence. Islam doesn't encourage FGM. Some interpretations of the hadith in some muslim societies encourage it. But the point is that it's more a regional cultural thing rather than a specific religious issue.

[JimC]

FGM IS encouraged by islam that is the point surely ?
and that was not even original argument i'm more interested in why an atheist would be so keen to defend islam and why your first argument (even if a completely untrue one) was only a fallacy of relevance.
Just how far will you go to defend Islam ?
Islam is not going to take over western cultures but the stated aim of Islam is to try;
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... ms-2013-2/

Stop ranting and raving and fucking think for a second. We are atheists here. No one likes Islam, let alone defends it. We defend rationality and evidence. Islam doesn't encourage FGM. Some interpretations of the hadith in some muslim societies encourage it. But the point is that it's more a regional cultural thing rather than a specific religious issue.

I generally agree, but I would say that a very significant chunk of world-wide Islam definitely encourages FGM, which is appalling...

[laklak]

FGM is part and parcel of the general idea that women are chattel. You don't want them to enjoy sex, or they might go enjoy it with somebody else. Keep 'em in the house, uneducated, covered up with a bin liner, and chop off their clit. Keep's 'em tight and faithful, I was told. Seriously - tight and faithful - that was the reason. And this from a well educated, professional Egyptian IT guy who'd lived all over the world. Their casual misogyny is breathtaking, and it isn't some thin veneer, it's bone goddamn deep. There's a reason you never, ever, ever see a Western female engineer or programmer in the Mideast.

[pErvinalia]

FGM IS encouraged by islam that is the point surely ?
and that was not even original argument i'm more interested in why an atheist would be so keen to defend islam and why your first argument (even if a completely untrue one) was only a fallacy of relevance.
Just how far will you go to defend Islam ?
Islam is not going to take over western cultures but the stated aim of Islam is to try;
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the- ... ms-2013-2/

Stop ranting and raving and fucking think for a second. We are atheists here. No one likes Islam, let alone defends it. We defend rationality and evidence. Islam doesn't encourage FGM. Some interpretations of the hadith in some muslim societies encourage it. But the point is that it's more a regional cultural thing rather than a specific religious issue.

I generally agree, but I would say that a very significant chunk of world-wide Islam definitely encourages FGM, which is appalling...

Read the article. It's mostly in central Africa. It's largely absent from the Middle East and Asia (i.e. the majority of muslim countries).